totdprods

Official 2017 MLB Trade Deadline Thread

296 posts in this topic

It is going to be very fluid and can definitely reverse to their benefit too. Going to be a wild trade deadline I think.

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2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

That's kind of my point though - I don't think Eppler is ready to buy or sell right now, but with big names coming off the board they may be getting a lot more hits on their players right now when they're not sure if they should sell, or be feeling more pressure to strike before costs go up as teams start focusing more on the more under-the-radar types Eppler is likelier to target. 

A week from now those teams calling may have moved on. 

All I'm saying is things are moving quick and the Angels obviously wanted another week or so to decide.

 

But that is what I am trying to emphasize. The names that have come off the board (Quintana, Doolittle, and Martinez) were not ones that we had a really good chance at obtaining. Our market is developing now as we speak. We still have two full weeks left and the board almost always empties from the top down. If the Yankees get Robertson and Frazier we continue to approach the Bud Norris's and Cameron Maybin's of the world but we aren't quite there yet.

I think Eppler knows exactly whether he is a buyer or seller at this point based purely on the fact that he has made dozens of phone calls and knows what is and isn't available and what the buy or ask is on any particular player of interest. In fact if he hasn't made an initial assessment of the costs and buys involved in our potential trade chips and targets I would be disappointed in him. He knows what he can and cannot do and will act appropriately when the time is right and the market is ready for whatever transaction(s) he is ready to make.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, ettin said:

Okay I have looked at all three of these prospects FanGraphs pages and some scouting reports and it is essentially three punchless middle infielders that play potentially above average defense at up-the-middle positions. Lugo might be a regular, Alcantara looks more like a utility guy and King might have some potential on-base ability. But it sure does seem like the Tigers, on paper, didn't come out too well here. I would have thought J.D. Martinez would have brought back a nice quality prospect.

See?

EDIT: I feel like the Ralph Fiennes character in Red Dragon: "Dawel Lugo!!!! Do you see?!? .... Sergio Alcantara!!! Do you see?!?.... Jose King!!!! DO YOU SEE?!?" <Bites face off>

Edited by ettin

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1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Our farm in general isn't great but the most recent drafts will develop some quality major leaguers. I certainly wouldn't trade a single top five guy in a package for JD Martinez when we are below .500 and he's got 2+ months of control.  Doing something like that in our situation would be idiotic. 

Nor would i trade 3 top 5 guys... nor did they.  they traded 3 top 100s, 2 top 30 for a bat thats ranked in the top 10.  

 

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1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

But was it wise to trade Segura for a rental of Grienke?   Wasn't Segura ranked around #4 in the org at the time of that trade?

in hindsight, probably not.   At thi time.. i was 50/50.  Its obvious he never intended to reisgn so if we had known  that its a diff matter.  

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2 hours ago, Stradling said:

He is a rental.  The only way I am giving up 3 prospects from our organization, 2 being in our top 30, would be for a guy that will be here in the following season or two.  

a rental design to make the post... please dont leave that part out.    and a very good one at that.    But most here way over value prospects even over playoff appearances 

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1 minute ago, floplag said:

Nor would i trade 3 top 5 guys... nor did they.  they traded 3 top 100s, 2 top 30 for a bat thats ranked in the top 10.  

 

I'm saying they gave up their number 4 prospect.  I wouldn't do that.  I wouldn't trade anyone in our top 5.  

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Just now, Stradling said:

I'm saying they gave up their number 4 prospect.  I wouldn't do that.  I wouldn't trade anyone in our top 5.  

So you put more value on a prospects than a shot at the post?  What is for example he was a quality 2B in our case?  i dont trade for that player specifically but its the situation im talking about... if this was a top 10 2B... you dont make that deal?  really? 

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1 minute ago, floplag said:

So you put more value on a prospects than a shot at the post?  What is for example he was a quality 2B in our case?  i dont trade for that player specifically but its the situation im talking about... if this was a top 10 2B... you dont make that deal?  really? 

I'd make the deal for Martinez or a 2nd baseman if they were signed longer than the rest of this year.  I might even make the trade if we were above .500 and a game or so out, especially if we had pitching.

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1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I'd make the deal for Martinez or a 2nd baseman if they were signed longer than the rest of this year.  I might even make the trade if we were above .500 and a game or so out, especially if we had pitching.

So you want guarantees.  if hes signed that long you never get him for that price.  You know that.  Sometimes you have to take the risk you can sign them and of course it doesnt always work out.. 

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8 minutes ago, floplag said:

So you want guarantees.  if hes signed that long you never get him for that price.  You know that.  Sometimes you have to take the risk you can sign them and of course it doesnt always work out.. 

Yes and that time is when you're a player away or you have a surplus of minor league talent, especially if their is redundancy in that talent.  The time to not do it is when you are 2 games under .500 and chasing 6 or 7 teams for the 2nd wild card.  

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Ooo, Sosh says Franklin is here to fix production at second base. How many hits has had as an Angel. Two and hitting .111 in his first 9 games, so he is off to a hot start.

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1 minute ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Ooo, Sosh says Franklin is here to fix production at second base. How many hits has had as an Angel. Two and hitting .111 in his first 9 games, so he is off to a hot start.

Seems like he's already gotten on base almost as many damn times as Espinosa ever did though. 

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I doubt they trade Yescobar or Maybin ... Revere possibly and a pitcher or two. Still almost 60 games left after the deadline. We also may have some added pitching help down the stretch.

'The show must go on'

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38 minutes ago, ettin said:

But that is what I am trying to emphasize. The names that have come off the board (Quintana, Doolittle, and Martinez) were not ones that we had a really good chance at obtaining. Our market is developing now as we speak. We still have two full weeks left and the board almost always empties from the top down. If the Yankees get Robertson and Frazier we continue to approach the Bud Norris's and Cameron Maybin's of the world but we aren't quite there yet.

I think Eppler knows exactly whether he is a buyer or seller at this point based purely on the fact that he has made dozens of phone calls and knows what is and isn't available and what the buy or ask is on any particular player of interest. In fact if he hasn't made an initial assessment of the costs and buys involved in our potential trade chips and targets I would be disappointed in him. He knows what he can and cannot do and will act appropriately when the time is right and the market is ready for whatever transaction(s) he is ready to make.

To add one more item into this discussion: Every team has a list of needs/wants and what they think they can obtain and what that actually turns out to be.

For instance the Diamondbacks. Per the Methodology article the Diamondbacks were ranked 28th hitting against LHP. They were ranked dead last as of yesterday. Now Cameron Maybin would have helped them against LHP (or even Yunel Escobar) but when they asked around on different OF's with big right-handed bats and found out that the Tigers were dumb enough to want three punchless middle infielders they probably jumped for joy compared to what they may have had to deal for Maybin or other bats. Contracts and best offers/fits play a big role in how this stuff goes down.

The point is that different sellers are going to ask for prospects/players they have determined are best fits for them and the acquiring team, of course, decides if it is worth the price and that will be different for every combination of teams in their talks in all likelihood. Sometimes, like this Martinez trade, the stars align for a team like the D'backs who are going to need even more bats good against LHP if and when they face the Dodgers that are stocked with LHP.

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37 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes and that time is when you're a player away or you have a surplus of minor league talent, especially if their is redundancy in that talent.  The time to not do it is when you are 2 games under .500 and chasing 6 or 7 teams for the 2nd wild card.  

You do it when it can be done, you cant dictate that.    I hear you, i get it, but you dont get that deal in the off season in my opinion, thats all. 

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6 minutes ago, floplag said:

You do it when it can be done, you cant dictate that.    I hear you, i get it, but you dont get that deal in the off season in my opinion, thats all. 

The guy is a free agent in three months.  If you want him sign him.  Don't trade good minor league players for rentals when you're below .500 and you're in desperate need of a farm system. 

Now if you give up a guy to go get a Gordon and you take on his contract, that makes sense.  

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6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The guy is a free agent in three months.  If you want him sign him.  Don't trade good minor league players for rentals when you're below .500 and you're in desperate need of a farm system. 

Now if you give up a guy to go get a Gordon and you take on his contract, that makes sense.  

agreed, in a perfect world.  i just dont think its that simple.   If you have a chance to get a badly needed piece, you have to at least consider it regardless of the surrounding details 
you cant wait for it to be perfect and fall in your lap 

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28 minutes ago, floplag said:

agreed, in a perfect world.  i just dont think its that simple.   If you have a chance to get a badly needed piece, you have to at least consider it regardless of the surrounding details 
you cant wait for it to be perfect and fall in your lap 

But you don't do it at a trade deadline with a below average team with a rental.  

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12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

But you don't do it at a trade deadline with a below average team with a rental.  

If thats the time you can do it why not?  For that cost?  I think you have to go with what presents itself when it presents, not on your time when its convenient or makes perfect sense.   We disagree, all good.   I just feel like this club is going to need to think outside the box to improve sooner rather than later. 

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I don't know how to go back and search but I was against trading away Segura even if we did end up signing Zack which I was also very pessimistic about.  From everything I saw from him and read about him, he was a legit player that was the best of the bunch of INF we had.  Over and done with though.  I have no idea how anyone here could be clamoring to trade away what very LITTLE we have prospect wise and bring in a player to help us get the 2nd wild card.  This season, like last, is a lost cause.  If you can trade away starters and replace them with some young guys like Cowart, then sign some players in FA or use the players we got in trades to upgrade along with signing FA, we might actually have a shot at the division next year.

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14 minutes ago, floplag said:

If thats the time you can do it why not?  For that cost?  I think you have to go with what presents itself when it presents, not on your time when its convenient or makes perfect sense.   We disagree, all good.   I just feel like this club is going to need to think outside the box to improve sooner rather than later. 

It's no about "that cost" it's about what it would cost us.  If we gave up our number 4 prospect for him that's a future everyday player for three months of Martinez.  

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11 hours ago, Stradling said:

It's no about "that cost" it's about what it would cost us.  If we gave up our number 4 prospect for him that's a future everyday player for three months of Martinez.  

You assume they will be "a future everyday player"... most that have come thru the system have not been that, its certainly not a guarantee. 

you may be snakebit on contracts, im snakebit on "cant miss prospects" that have missed by a mile and in my opinion have been largely over valued.  Do i really need to list the names of the supposed cant miss guys that have missed in the last 5-10 years for us?  Assuming that the prospect will be any type of guarantee is simply not a fair argument. especially with a farm like ours... our #5 might not make another farms top 20 for example. 

Again im not suggesting we should have gotten Martinez, but would i trade that prospect for a shot at a long term 2B solution, yes i would even if it was a possible rental as there is zero guarantee that the prospect will ever be anything while the other is a proven commodity.

Again we simply disagree and value the things differently, im concerned with winning in Trouts prime, you are more willing to be patient. 

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