MrClutch

Does anyone want Sosh back? If not, who do ya want?

146 posts in this topic

All the rumor mills point to Mike stepping down at the end of the year.  In my opinion, that is the best scenario for the short-term and long-term health of the franchise.  But, what if he wants to come back another year and the rumor mills really are "poppycock?"

Any of you guys (and gals) want him back?  If yes, why?  If no, then who would you like to fill the spot?

I appreciate all that he has done for the franchise, but the 10-year contract has run it's course and then some.  Personally, I think that a move should've been made back in 2015/2016 if not earlier.  I am a big Jerry Dipoto fan (personally - super good dude with a great family and in what he brings to a team in the analytics department) and the way that Big Mike ran Dipoto out of town was the final nail in the coffin for me.  I'd much rather have Dipoto than the stubborn fool that Sosh has become.  Winners adapt and there hasn't been much winning around these parts lately.

With that said, a bunch of names have come out as possible replacements...

- Brad Ausmus.  Please NO!  The guy couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag in Detroit.  The Tigers won in spite of him.  

- Eric Chavez.  It seems as if this is the front runner... for the future. He's out in Salt Lake with the Bees getting some experience.  It almost feels as if Keith Johnson is the front runner with Chavez as the heir apparent if that backfires.  

- Keith Johnson.  As just mentioned, I assume him as the front runner after coming up from Salt Lake.  Chavez is the sexier choice, but he needs more of a resume I would think to take on the head gig at MLB level.  Thus, plug Johnson in unless Chavez blows people away in Bee Country.

- Joe Girardi.  Lots of talk about this in ESPN circles because of his connection to Eppler, but I don't see it.  I don't see Joe fitting fitting in to the Anaheim way of life, much less taking on an admitted project like the Angels (Pujols, starting pitching, glaring holes at both corners).  I think Joe goes to St. Louis.

- Josh Paul.  I think Josh is a dark horse candidate here.  Most of it depends on how much stock Eppler has in Josh's potential as a manager.  Lots of chatter about him being a manager one day...somewhere.

There are some other names out there (Roenicke, Farrell), but I truly believe that the gig goes to Johnson or Chavez.....

If I had to pick between the two?  Give me Johnson.  

 

 

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I had to respond to "big Jerry Dipoto fan".

You are aware that he destroyed the farm system here, and has already destroyed the M's farm system.

Like the Halos were by 2016, the M's are screwed now because they have no farm to rely on.   Their 'TOP' prospect Kyle Lewis flopped this season, only a .711 OPS.   

Without a farm, it is very difficult to maintain any continuity.

Dipoto may be a great family man, but as a GM he comes across as arrogant and seemingly trying to outsmart others and even himself with some head scratching moves.  He and Reagins set back this franchise pretty much an entire decade.

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19 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I had to respond to "big Jerry Dipoto fan".

You are aware that he destroyed the farm system here, and has already destroyed the M's farm system.

Like the Halos were by 2016, the M's are screwed now because they have no farm to rely on.   Their 'TOP' prospect Kyle Lewis flopped this season, only a .711 OPS.   

Without a farm, it is very difficult to maintain any continuity.

Dipoto may be a great family man, but as a GM he comes across as arrogant and seemingly trying to outsmart others and even himself with some head scratching moves.  He and Reagins set back this franchise pretty much an entire decade.

You mean the Mariners that he built that have battled all year and are 15 games over .500 at the moment?  He built around Cruz, Seager, and Paxton and the Mariners are a pleasant surprise to the good people  hippies of Seattle.  I would also argue that Jerry inherited a mess of a team and system that wasn't built to win at any time.  The Mariners are winning WITHOUT Cano...that is a major story in itself.  The fact that he pulled off the trade that got Seattle Haniger, Curtis, and Segura says otherwise to your point and the others who scoff at Dipoto as a GM.  

You act like Dipoto depleted the farm system in Seattle.  It was ranked 28th in baseball in 2015 (before Dipoto went to Seattle).  He inherited a miserable situation and has worked with what he has in order to try not to waste King Felix, Seager, Paxton, Cruz, etc.  

Add in the fact that Seattle isn't a major market team that can freewheel and spend and it's pretty astonishing that the Mariners are doing what they are doing.  They are in the middle of the pack as far as budget.  His Mariners almost grabbed the AL Wildcard in 2016.  In 2017, they were injured (something all of us Angels fans know a lot about).  This year, they are a mix of 2016 and 2017.  At least they are competing.  

As far as Dipoto's time in Anaheim...

What is he supposed to do when his manager won't adapt to the modern game of baseball?  What is he supposed to do with an injury laden rotation?  The biggest issue is that Big Mike wouldn't buy into the type of baseball and philosophy that Dipoto was encouraging.  When that happens, things won't work - as we can clearly see with the underperformance of the last few years (which somehow seem like an eternity under Scioscia).  Big Mike didn't like that Jerry fired his buddy (Hatcher).  Big Mike didn't want to use analytics at all.  

As far as the big contracts, you are out of your ever-loving mind if you think that Moreno wasn't the major player and force behind Hamilton, Wilson, and Pujols.  

Dipoto is a legitimate baseball mind.  Different strokes for different folks, but I stand by the opinion that the wrong guy won out between Dipoto and Scioscia.

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8 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I like how Jerry Dipoto supposedly having a "great family" has anything to do with anything. Billy Eppler has a wife and a son. Does he not have a "great family"? Scioscia has been married for decades and has two kids.

It doesn't.  I know Jerry and his wife personally.  That was all my point was for disclosure.  

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So, instead of ad-hominem attacks from you guys, where are the well put-together thoughts and arguments?  I can tell who are fans of Scioscia based on how you argue because you argue like he manages - on instinct and emotion instead of coming from a place of facts.

Again, blame Dipoto all you want for the Hamilton, Wilson, and Pujols signings, but every single baseball reporter and insider will tell you that Arte Moreno sank us with his direct pursuits and negotiations with the three.

Eppler runs the show in Anaheim and for it to be a peaceful existence, I expect them to hire Johnson.  He's a company guy.  He's done his time.  As I said, Chavez is the "sexier" hire, but why would I want to hire him as manager?

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1 minute ago, MrClutch said:

So, instead of ad-hominem attacks from you guys, where are the well put-together thoughts and arguments?  I can tell who are fans of Scioscia based on how you argue because you argue like he manages - on instinct and emotion instead of coming from a place of facts.

Again, blame Dipoto all you want for the Hamilton, Wilson, and Pujols signings, but every single baseball reporter and insider will tell you that Arte Moreno sank us with his direct pursuits and negotiations with the three.

Eppler runs the show in Anaheim and for it to be a peaceful existence, I expect them to hire Johnson.  He's a company guy.  He's done his time.  As I said, Chavez is the "sexier" hire, but why would I want to hire him as manager?

When Dipoto left, the Angels' minor league season was ranked dead last. You honestly can't blame Mike Scioscia for that. Give me the name of one player drafted with Dipoto at the helm who has superstar potential.

Dipoto inherited an M's farm system that was ranked 28th. OK. Where is it ranked now? If he's such a great GM, shouldn't he have improved the farm system?

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8 minutes ago, MrClutch said:

You mean the Mariners that he built that have battled all year and are 15 games over .500 at the moment?  He built around Cruz, Seager, and Paxton and the Mariners are a pleasant surprise to the good people  hippies of Seattle.  I would also argue that Jerry inherited a mess of a team and system that wasn't built to win at any time.  The Mariners are winning WITHOUT Cano...that is a major story in itself.  The fact that he pulled off the trade that got Seattle Haniger, Curtis, and Segura says otherwise to your point and the others who scoff at Dipoto as a GM.  

You act like Dipoto depleted the farm system in Seattle.  It was ranked 28th in baseball in 2015 (before Dipoto went to Seattle).  He inherited a miserable situation and has worked with what he has in order to try not to waste King Felix, Seager, Paxton, Cruz, etc.  

Add in the fact that Seattle isn't a major market team that can freewheel and spend and it's pretty astonishing that the Mariners are doing what they are doing.  They are in the middle of the pack as far as budget.  His Mariners almost grabbed the AL Wildcard in 2016.  In 2017, they were injured (something all of us Angels fans know a lot about).  This year, they are a mix of 2016 and 2017.  At least they are competing.  

As far as Dipoto's time in Anaheim...

What is he supposed to do when his manager won't adapt to the modern game of baseball?  What is he supposed to do with an injury laden rotation?  The biggest issue is that Big Mike wouldn't buy into the type of baseball and philosophy that Dipoto was encouraging.  When that happens, things won't work - as we can clearly see with the underperformance of the last few years (which somehow seem like an eternity under Scioscia).  Big Mike didn't like that Jerry fired his buddy (Hatcher).  Big Mike didn't want to use analytics at all.  

As far as the big contracts, you are out of your ever-loving mind if you think that Moreno wasn't the major player and force behind Hamilton, Wilson, and Pujols.  

Dipoto is a legitimate baseball mind.  Different strokes for different folks, but I stand by the opinion that the wrong guy won out between Dipoto and Scioscia.

Lets see....The M's are a huge 9.5 games better than the Angels...The Angels have lost 10 players for the season, Shoemaker for most of the season, Ohtani has pitched in a handful of games and the farm system, which is like a bank account to acquire better talent is moving in the right direction.

Had made some nice moves to get them here, but what about next year and three years from now....

Offensively, the M's are behind the Angels in OPS and runs scored

Defensively, the M's are behind the Angels in ERA and BAA and barely ahead in runs allowed, 

 

So are the M's that much better than the Angels...not really.  

Are the M's that much better next year or the years to come....No!

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11 minutes ago, MrClutch said:

It doesn't.  I know Jerry and his wife personally.  That was all my point was for disclosure.  

Why do you keep bringing up Jerry ... thought this was about the Angels next Manager. Sorry about your team taking a dump when it counted. There’s always next year. 

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Just now, Taylor said:

When Dipoto left, the Angels' minor league season was ranked dead last. You honestly can't blame Mike Scioscia for that. Give me the name of one player drafted with Dipoto at the helm who has superstar potential.

Dipoto inherited an M's farm system that was ranked 28th. OK. Where is it ranked now? If he's such a great GM, shouldn't he have improved the farm system?

Yeah, it's been more of the same in Seattle with the farm system.  SHOULD it be improved?  Of course.  However, there are many factors that play into that.  Are they trying to win now?  Do they have a rebuilding plan?  Are they trying to win in the next 3 years?  No doubt that a farm system is vital (see the Astros), but not everyone has the luxury of having a quick rebuild.  

As far as the Angels go, no I don't blame Scioscia for the farm system being built or not built.  I blame Moreno.  I blame Reagins.  And to be sure, some of it falls on Jerry's lap for the 3+ years he was here.  

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2 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Why do you keep bringing up Jerry ... thought this was about the Angels next Manager. Sorry about your team taking a dump when it counted. There’s always next year. 

Do you not read?  People jumped over my mention of the guy.  That's the way the discussion went since no one can come up with any actual replies.

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To answer your original question....

I would be okay with Scioscia coming back....he has gotten a lot out of team that has been injured and played with several rookies.  I would also be okay with a new manager, some new blood.  I would be okay with Keith Johnson, Josh Paul or Eric Chavez.  

My two biggest complaints/concerns are the constant matching of line ups...setting Ohtani for the Marte's of the world and the continual running out of #5.  I know he is going to play, he should just play less.

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5 minutes ago, HaloNArizona said:

Lets see....The M's are a huge 9.5 games better than the Angels...The Angels have lost 10 players for the season, Shoemaker for most of the season, Ohtani has pitched in a handful of games and the farm system, which is like a bank account to acquire better talent is moving in the right direction.

Had made some nice moves to get them here, but what about next year and three years from now....

Offensively, the M's are behind the Angels in OPS and runs scored

Defensively, the M's are behind the Angels in ERA and BAA and barely ahead in runs allowed, 

 

So are the M's that much better than the Angels...not really.  

Are the M's that much better next year or the years to come....No!

The point is that the M's weren't supposed to compete.  I brought it up because people are trying to act like the major issue with the Angels was Dipoto's tenure.  It's not. The issue is Moreno's involvement, Scioscia not adapting, injuries, and gaping holes at the corners and behind the plate.

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1 minute ago, MrClutch said:

Yeah, it's been more of the same in Seattle with the farm system.  SHOULD it be improved?  Of course.  However, there are many factors that play into that.  Are they trying to win now?  Do they have a rebuilding plan?  Are they trying to win in the next 3 years?  No doubt that a farm system is vital (see the Astros), but not everyone has the luxury of having a quick rebuild.  

As far as the Angels go, no I don't blame Scioscia for the farm system being built or not built.  I blame Moreno.  I blame Reagins.  And to be sure, some of it falls on Jerry's lap for the 3+ years he was here.  

To be a good GM...you need to win today and the next three years.  You need to build the capitol to make moves.  While previous GM's can share the blame, Jerry traded everything in site.  Just as he has in Seattle.

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1 minute ago, HaloNArizona said:

To answer your original question....

I would be okay with Scioscia coming back....he has gotten a lot out of team that has been injured and played with several rookies.  I would also be okay with a new manager, some new blood.  I would be okay with Keith Johnson, Josh Paul or Eric Chavez.  

My two biggest complaints/concerns are the constant matching of line ups...setting Ohtani for the Marte's of the world and the continual running out of #5.  I know he is going to play, he should just play less.

And I respect that view, but I disagree.  I don't believe that Scioscia is the best guy going forward if we are to put a team together that can compete (and keep Trout).  

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