greginpsca

2018 Hot Stove League

3,591 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Who's left amongst FA relievers and 3B (not Machado) now?

Ottavino, Moose, and ?

That would be impactful?  not much unless we want to pay Kimbrel which i do not.
Alas i think the ship has sailed.  They will try to maybe get one of the SF guys on the cheap in trade and book flights to spring training. 

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21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Allen and Holland are both available. 

I think i would rather roll with the kids myself
Holland had a 4.66 ERA and a 1.62 WHIP in 18, Allen 4.7 / 1.36, both basically career worsts.

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I still think it’s funny whenever anyone throws out stats for a reliever, good or bad. At the end of the day it’s a total freaking crapshoot either way. 

Grab as many relievers as you can without spending a fortune or clogging up the roster. Since we have a good selection of guys who can start in AAA due to options -  Buttrey, Anderson, Pena - then I think they could give vets an opp to displace them to start the year and win jobs in ST like Norris and Petit.

Might be one reason Eppler didn’t do much last season - I think almost all of our relievers and the time were out of options.

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12 minutes ago, floplag said:

I think i would rather roll with the kids myself
Holland had a 4.66 ERA and a 1.62 WHIP in 18, Allen 4.7 / 1.36, both basically career worsts.

These are exactly the types of guys we will sign because if they bounce back and they’ll be good pieces to trade. 

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Man if we were able to trade for Will Smith and sign Adam Ottavino. I don't think we'd need to make another move. 

Let Cozart, Rengifo, Fletcher, Ward and La Stella battle it out for two spots (2B/3B). We already have a 1B platoon in Bour/Pujols and Ohtani at DH. If Calhoun is the guy of old or close to the guy who came back after his minor league stint last season... We'll be a force to be reckoned with IMO. 

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3 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Yellow Balloon said:

And when Charlie Finley proposed 1 year contracts for EVERYBODY his fellow owners quickly shut him down.  Miller later admitted that that was the one scenario he dreaded most and that if anyone other than Finley had come up with it the owners might actually have taken it seriously.

Ah, good ol' Chuck Finley.

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2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Again, Bryce Harper had been the anointed savior of baseball since he was in middle school, fat boying out HRs in rich white boy baseball camps and being hyped up in every way possible. It's a wonder he isn't more of a cartoonish smug supervillain like Bonds became.

Trout was good ol' boyin' it up in bumfuck Jersey, everymannin' it as the son of a failed minor leaguer and going below everyone's radar.

Two very different backgrounds. Bryce is like the Anakin Skywalker to Trout's Luke.

Love this.  Sounds like an article from Rolling Stone, circa 1973, comparing Wayne Newton to Springsteen.  

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59 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Man if we were able to trade for Will Smith and sign Adam Ottavino. I don't think we'd need to make another move. 

Let Cozart, Rengifo, Fletcher, Ward and La Stella battle it out for two spots (2B/3B). We already have a 1B platoon in Bour/Pujols and Ohtani at DH. If Calhoun is the guy of old or close to the guy who came back after his minor league stint last season... We'll be a force to be reckoned with IMO. 

I’d still make one very minor IF move to maintain some depth. Just needs to be kept cheap and on a short leash. Matt Davidson, Freddy Galvis, or Logan Forsythe-level. Agreed on Smith and Ottavino. 

Someone who on a rebound gives you a much better OBP or SLG capacity than Fletcher or La Stella respectively. Someone easy to cut if not. The long-term IF depth is great right now, but a poorly timed injury or two and we’re putting quite a bit on the shoulders of kids we need to develop properly and for the long-term. 

I also want us to be able to at least consider a deadline deal for help if we’re in good position, and that’s trickier if we’re counting on all the kids. 

Fletcher starting the season at AAA because we rolled the dice on a cheap vet isn’t going to cost us the playoffs. 

Our current projected starting IF (Cozart, Simmons, Fletcher, Bour/Pujols, and Lucroy) had an OPS of...662 last season. 

Color me a little skeptical relying on Taylor Ward, Luis Rengifo, David Fletcher, and Matt Thaiss to save us from that immediately. Ward and Fletcher already failed to top .700 their first time around. Adding one more guy into the mix who feasibly lands at a .700-.750 OPS would go a long way. If you add Moustakas, the collective IF OPS goes from .662 to .718.

Edited by totdprods

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39 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Man if we were able to trade for Will Smith and sign Adam Ottavino. I don't think we'd need to make another move. 

Let Cozart, Rengifo, Fletcher, Ward and La Stella battle it out for two spots (2B/3B). We already have a 1B platoon in Bour/Pujols and Ohtani at DH. If Calhoun is the guy of old or close to the guy who came back after his minor league stint last season... We'll be a force to be reckoned with IMO. 

Hopfeully Eppler doesnt sign a pitcher who was good 3 years ago for cheap and try to ''fix'' his mechanics 

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1 hour ago, Stradling said:

These are exactly the types of guys we will sign because if they bounce back and they’ll be good pieces to trade. 

If thats our motivation were in deeper trouble than i thought.   

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2 minutes ago, floplag said:

If thats our motivation were in deeper trouble than i thought.   

Why?  If they perform well we might get into the playoffs.  If they perform well but our team isn’t in line to make the playoffs then you can move them and improve the rebuild.  It makes all the sense in the world, especially with bullpen arms do to their volatility. 

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4 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I still think I'd rather have consistently good numbers across the board every season. I don't like the idea of Harper having Ervin Santana like seasons where one year he's great then the next year he sucks. With that being said, If we ever did sign Harper i'd still be happy

career road OPS is .761

it pays to play over 400 games in a little league field 

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8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Why?  If they perform well we might get into the playoffs.  If they perform well but our team isn’t in line to make the playoffs then you can move them and improve the rebuild.  It makes all the sense in the world, especially with bullpen arms do to their volatility. 

If they perform well, and trade them, are seemingly in opposition in this case. If they do then we should be in the mix unless other areas falter horribly (cough offense cough).
All im saying is signing guys in the hopes of being able to trade them later shouldnt be priority.

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1 minute ago, floplag said:

If they perform well, and trade them, are seemingly in opposition in this case. If they do then we should be in the mix unless other areas falter horribly (cough offense cough).
All im saying is signing guys in the hopes of being able to trade them later shouldnt be priority.

Ok what if last year we had the exact same season but Jim Johnson was awesome.   You trade him, without question.  Also it’s not a priority it’s an option.  Something that isn’t as likely if you pay top dollar for 3-4 years of a closer.  

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Wilmer Flores would be interesting. He'll only be in his age 27 season in 2019, and in the last three seasons owns a .268/.315/.456/.771 slash with an OPS+ of 109. 

Age 21-23: 81 games, 295 PA, 13 doubles, 8 homers, 12 walks, 39 strikeouts, .253/.287/.386/.673, OPS+ 88
Age 24-26:  113 games, 375, PA, 19 doubles, 15 homers, 23 walks, 48 strikeouts, .268/.315/.456/.771, OPS+ 109

Age 21-23: 13.2 SO%, 4.1 BB%, 7.2 XBH%, 25 LD%
Age 24-26: 12.8 SO%, 6.1 BB%, 9.1 XBH%, 26 LD%

That's an interesting uptick in power for a young player posting well below league-average (and decreasing) SO% rates (MLB is 21%) and increasing BB% (league average is 8%)

Plays 2B 3B, and 1B, and in his career, owns a .780 OPS vs. LHP (.706 vs. RHP), and at 6'3", could be growing into a decent power hitter who has excellent plate discipline and contact skills. Great recipe for success.

Edited by totdprods

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7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok what if last year we had the exact same season but Jim Johnson was awesome.   You trade him, without question.  Also it’s not a priority it’s an option.  Something that isn’t as likely if you pay top dollar for 3-4 years of a closer.  

Im not suggesting you are wrong, only that i wish that wasnt part of the discussion.  If we made better moves we wouldnt be as much on that cusp as we are.  its hedging bets and trying to play it both ways, its not an effort to actually win, its an effort to hopefully win while keeping your options open.
Its an A's move right out of thier playbook and its beneath this franchise as far as im concerned. 
Its just my opinion, i get it, i simply dont like it.  There is a big difference to me between hoping well win, and expecting to win. 

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7 minutes ago, floplag said:

Im not suggesting you are wrong, only that i wish that wasnt part of the discussion.  If we made better moves we wouldnt be as much on that cusp as we are.  its hedging bets and trying to play it both ways, its not an effort to actually win, its an effort to hopefully win while keeping your options open.
Its an A's move right out of thier playbook and its beneath this franchise as far as im concerned. 
Its just my opinion, i get it, i simply dont like it.  There is a big difference to me between hoping well win, and expecting to win. 

any player the Angels sign is done so with the intent of getting them to the playoffs.  It's merely an added benefit if you aren't in it and that player becomes tradeable.  

I'm glad that Maldonado did well enough last year to get us Patrick Sandoval.  I hope we get a shit ton more guys just like him or better if we don't make the playoffs and can move a bunch of expiring contracts.  

wanting to or expecting to make the playoffs and being happy that a guy has trade value in case we don't are not mutually exclusive.  

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8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Well if we don’t build a sustainable farm we shouldn’t expect to win. 

But in this scenario you are potentially leveraging the success of the big club to do so, that tactic i wont ever agree with.  Your first though was going back to building a sustainable farm by hoping guys bounce back enough to get traded.   Now i would be fine with that if lets say Canning and Sandoval or Suarez were having great years and we wanted to bring them up, but thats a best case situation and not my first thought.
 

 

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

any player the Angels sign is done so with the intent of getting them to the playoffs.  It's merely an added benefit if you aren't in it and that player becomes tradeable.  

I'm glad that Maldonado did well enough last year to get us Patrick Sandoval.  I hope we get a shit ton more guys just like him or better if we don't make the playoffs and can move a bunch of expiring contracts.  

wanting to or expecting to make the playoffs and being happy that a guy has trade value in case we don't are not mutually exclusive.  

No they are not exclusive, but isnt signing guys coming off better years going to have a better chance of helping the club succeed than guys coming of horrible ones hoping for bounceback?  

I would be very curious to see what happened if a lot of these 1 year guys do bounceback and we are within striking distance which choice they made, im betting it wouldnt be one i agreed with at this point as i think they would still trade them regardless of readiness of replacements.  

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19 minutes ago, floplag said:

But in this scenario you are potentially leveraging the success of the big club to do so, that tactic i wont ever agree with.  Your first though was going back to building a sustainable farm by hoping guys bounce back enough to get traded.   Now i would be fine with that if lets say Canning and Sandoval or Suarez were having great years and we wanted to bring them up, but thats a best case situation and not my first thought.
 

 

No they are not exclusive, but isnt signing guys coming off better years going to have a better chance of helping the club succeed than guys coming of horrible ones hoping for bounceback?  

I would be very curious to see what happened if a lot of these 1 year guys do bounceback and we are within striking distance which choice they made, im betting it wouldnt be one i agreed with at this point as i think they would still trade them regardless of readiness of replacements.  

he's not saying 'go out and get a bunch of guys on one year deals so we can trade them at the deadline'.  He's saying 'should we obtain a guy on a one year deal, the added benefit is that they could be worth something in trade at the deadline should we be out of it'.  

as far as signing the 'bounce back' type player, I agree that I'd rather have the guy who's show consistency than the guy coming off a bad year, but for relievers it's a little different due to their volatility.  I'd have preferred to keep Alvarez over Luis Garcia.  I'd prefer Robertson over signing a guy like Allen or Holland but I definitely prefer the latter over not doing anything else.  

I guarantee you with 100% certainty that if we are in the WC race at the deadline we not only won't trade anyone away, but we will likely be buyers.  

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