greginpsca

2018 Hot Stove League

4,399 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, WeatherWonk said:

Then again, it's not like you can take your services elsewhere as a player, with comparable compensation. The MLB anti-trust exemption insures this. The media contracts cement it. 

The owners are holding most of the cards.

The players have a collectively bargained contract, and nobody pays better than MLB.  There is nothing keeping players from signing with a Japanese team once they have reached free agency other than the lack of $$$$$.  The Curt Flood Act of 1998 also protects players and their right to FA.

Most of the antitrust stuff limits what teams can do vs what the league will allow them to do... As in moving a team to a new city like we see in the NFL.  Also minor leaguers are bound to the team that drafted them.

Edited by Inside Pitch

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3 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

When have you heard that Machado is a cancer in the clubhouse?

 

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Jeff Fletcher alluded to it.  Not sure how that’s relevant.  

 

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’m didn’t realize @Jeff Fletcher was a reliable source regarding Machado in the clubhouse. 

 

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I talked to some people who were around him with the Dodgers. 

 

bitch slap slapping GIF by absurdnoise

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1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I talked to some people who were around him with the Dodgers. 

Can you be more specific  ... do you think the Angels should sign him to a short term deal if it was financially feasible? 

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Verlander is living in his own past where owner's ignored aging data. Harper and Machado are living in the present that has too much information regarding both their projected value and in Machado's case the volitility of his temperament. 

Harper, if he wanted maximum dollars, should have taken the Nationals living in the past offer. Machado should have thought about his image in the post season if he wanted maximum dollars. Now there is no going back for the both of them.

Both choose the position they are in. 

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In context of how player salaries and length of contracts are progressing, Trout, if he wanted maximum years and dollars, should not have hitched his valuation on what Machado and Harper will settle for. His agent should have presented his best offer the week after the World Series ended while speculation about the other free agents value was still unresolved. 

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1 hour ago, Blarg said:

In context of how player salaries and length of contracts are progressing, Trout, if he wanted maximum years and dollars, should not have hitched his valuation on what Machado and Harper will settle for. His agent should have presented his best offer the week after the World Series ended while speculation about the other free agents value was still unresolved. 

But what is nice is with how tumultuous this off season has been, I think if presented with a nice contract extension Trout will be even more inclined to accept it.  If neither of these guys get $300 million, you’d have to think you can get Trout for around $350 million over ten years.  

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8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

But what is nice is with how tumultuous this off season has been, I think if presented with a nice contract extension Trout will be even more inclined to accept it.  If neither of these guys get $300 million, you’d have to think you can get Trout for around $350 million over ten years.  

Wishful thinking at its finest

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Just now, GrittyVeterans said:

Wishful thinking at its finest

Ok, what do you think he will get?  What did you think Machado and Harper were going to get coming into the off season?  Maybe I should have put $350-400 million.  But he isn’t getting the numbers ettin suggested he was going to get.  He isn’t going to get $500 million or some nonsense like that.  You can call it wishful thinking, but I would love to hear what you think the three guys are going to get.  Keep in mind that Trout will be two years older when he becomes a free agent and it certainly appears GMs/Owners are done with the really long contracts.  

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1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Verlander is living in his own past where owner's ignored aging data. Harper and Machado are living in the present that has too much information regarding both their projected value and in Machado's case the volitility of his temperament. 

Harper, if he wanted maximum dollars, should have taken the Nationals living in the past offer. Machado should have thought about his image in the post season if he wanted maximum dollars. Now there is no going back for the both of them.

Both choose the position they are in. 

Image result for chose poorly gif

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7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, what do you think he will get?  What did you think Machado and Harper were going to get coming into the off season?  Maybe I should have put $350-400 million.  But he isn’t getting the numbers ettin suggested he was going to get.  He isn’t going to get $500 million or some nonsense like that.  You can call it wishful thinking, but I would love to hear what you think the three guys are going to get.  Keep in mind that Trout will be two years older when he becomes a free agent and it certainly appears GMs/Owners are done with the really long contracts.  

He'll get more than 35 million per year...I think it will be 9/400

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4 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

He'll get more than 35 million per year...I think it will be 9/400

Maybe, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.  I could be something like 9 years $360 million.  I don’t think we will see him get much over $40 million.  

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4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Ok, what do you think he will get?  What did you think Machado and Harper were going to get coming into the off season?  Maybe I should have put $350-400 million.  But he isn’t getting the numbers ettin suggested he was going to get.  He isn’t going to get $500 million or some nonsense like that.  You can call it wishful thinking, but I would love to hear what you think the three guys are going to get.  Keep in mind that Trout will be two years older when he becomes a free agent and it certainly appears GMs/Owners are done with the really long contracts.  

There has been little evidence to-date that a premium free agent has not received a long, high-value contract. If that actually does happen this year (Harper and Machado not exceeding $400M) then I will reconsider my entire position.

Until then history has consistently shown that premium players get paid at a premium.

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1 minute ago, ettin said:

There has been little evidence to-date that a premium free agent has not received a long, high-value contract. If that actually does happen this year (Harper and Machado not exceeding $400M) then I will reconsider my entire position.

Until then history has consistently shown that premium players get paid at a premium.

I agree that premium free agents get paid a premium, but are we really past the days where $200 million isn’t a premium?  Or $30 million isn’t a premium?  

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14 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I agree that premium free agents get paid a premium, but are we really past the days where $200 million isn’t a premium?  Or $30 million isn’t a premium?  

The bar has been set by guys like Stanton, Greinke and Cespedes in terms of length and AAV and those contracts happened some bit of time in the past. Add in inflation, player youth, and the desire to break new ground in terms of total dollars and/or AAV, you will see them both get a lot of money in my humble opinion.

Maybe I am wrong Strad, but I don't believe I am, particularly when you consider the number of teams that in on both of these young players. I'd even point out that we may not have seen either Manny's or Bryce's best performances yet because they are still so young.

We'll see what happens shortly.

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There are a few factors at play this offseason that weren't in play a few years ago - or at least not to the extent they are today.

Players are clearly not performing in their mid 30's anymore.
Long term commitments to even young players like Jason Heyward have shown that nothing is certain beyond the financial obligations you commit to
The cable tv bubble is real and these record levels of revenue are not forever
Young players are great and they play for comparatively free

Sure teams can afford it, but most of them have finally figured out that they weren't getting much of anything in return for their massive investments.

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