Sean-Regan

lol A's (Kyler Murray)

175 posts in this topic

On 1/9/2019 at 10:52 PM, Second Base said:

So much for all that talk from his dickhead agent Scott Boras about being committed to playing baseball and being an Oakland A. The A's wasted a draft pick because of this. I'm not an A's fan but I hate people getting screwed by others lies or indecisiveness.

Whatever. I never felt Kyler Murray was 1st round material anyway. I thought it was a stupid unnecessary risk Oakland took.

To be fair to old Scott, he also got screwed here (though very slightly). He's not an NFL agent, so Kyler will be using other representation for that NFL deal.

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24 minutes ago, floplag said:

For me this raises a very large question/concern about MLB.

I keep asking myself why would a guy that was already a first round pick in one sport, give it up to play another sport where he might be a first rounder?  Especially this kid, who is for lack of a better way to put it not of a prototypical body style for the position, which is to say hes small in a league where that tends to be a very bad thing.  His closest comp in terms of play style and size I think is maybe Wilson with about 20 pounds less on the frame?

So the question is... why?  Is it truly just more passion for one game than the other?  Perhaps, i dont know the kid.  But if im being honest i have to think the short term money also factors into it.  If hes taken in the first round at all hes basically guaranteed about 3 times what the As had given him and nearly twice as much in one check as signing bonus.  As i recall thats a 4 year deal versus 7 in MLB once you are even called up and god knows how long in the minor with the clock game.  Basically he will have made 3-5 times the money before he might have even been called up to Oak.  

Athletes that have a chance at other sports are taking it, largely for the money.

the paths required to play at the highest level are much different in the NFL and NBA.  The amount of money given to any player in any sport is inversely proportional to the amount of risk in recouping that money.   The ability to project the success of an athlete is by far the most difficult in baseball.  

 

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14 minutes ago, floplag said:

Honestly Lou what do you expect him to say?  "its all about the benjamins?"  
If he gets obliterated day one and never plays a game in the league he will have made more from his signing bonus than he would have made with the As

I'll take the kid at his word. he didn't have to say that. he could have just said:"after serious consideration and discussing it with my family, I've decided to play football"

did you watch him play qb? it's obvious he loves playing football. 

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4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the paths required to play at the highest level are much different in the NFL and NBA.  The amount of money given to any player in any sport is inversely proportional to the amount of risk in recouping that money.   The ability to project the success of an athlete is by far the most difficult in baseball.  

 

True, but thats the team perspective, not the players. 

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4 minutes ago, Lou said:

I'll take the kid at his word. he didn't have to say that. he could have just said:"after serious consideration and discussing it with my family, I've decided to play football"

did you watch him play football? it's obvious he loves playing football. 

Im not suggesting the kid is a liar, only that the financial scales werent exactly balanced to really make it that tough a decision unless he comes from money and that wasnt a concern to him.  

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On 1/9/2019 at 8:00 PM, Hubs said:

He’s 5’8

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/01/kyler-murray-nfl-draft-height-tall-oklahoma-football-baseball-size-oakland-a

Oklahoma football lists him at 5-foot-10 and 195 pounds, Oklahoma baseball says he’s 5-foot-11, as does Google.

But especially for athletes on the shorter side, it’s possible their official sizes are exaggerated a little – and some have pointed out that he might actually be a few inches shorter. Last week on First Take, Stephen A. Smith praised Murray’s talent and speed, but said “it’s kind and generous to say he’s 5-9.”

Well, Mike Houck, Oklahoma’s assistant athletics director for strategic communications, took issue with that, and he tweeted Murray’s exact measured height from the beginning of the 2018 college football season, which is 5-foot-9 and 7/8 inches in socks.

Edited by Ace-Of-Diamonds

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On 1/9/2019 at 8:55 PM, Stradling said:

Pretty sure when he was drafted they had already said he could play QB for one year.  He evolved into a first round pick.  Now the A’s will get the equivalent pick this year, right?  

no, he signed a contract. The only thing they get is exclusive rights if he ever returns to baseball.

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14 minutes ago, floplag said:

True, but thats the team perspective, not the players. 

it's not the team's perspective.  it's reality.  

7 rounds of a football draft.  all players from college and a trace smattering from some euro league

40 rounds of a baseball draft.  plus and intl sign period.  players starting as young at 16.  The Angels have 8 levels of minor league players.  

If football or basketball felt they were missing out on a pool of players, they would make further adjustments and increase the number of developmental levels.  

Guys from the NBA and NFL drafts walk through the door and are made starters.  Often.  

When't the last time we've seen an mlb draft pick in the majors the same year?  

Other sports have more predictable talent.  Therefore, they get more money.  

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On 1/15/2019 at 6:36 AM, zenmaster said:

He'll probably end up trying out football for a couple years then trying to come back to baseball. 

He could get hurt and not be able to play either sport.

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12 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Why did those teams let Jackson and Sanders do it?

They weren't the QB. From this question I get the impression you don't follow football, so I'll try to break it down. 

The QB is the most cerebral position in football. They need to know all the plays in the playbook, read defenses, and choose where to distribute the ball. College QBs often enroll early in school to get a headstart on learning the things. 

In addition to just the increased mental demands of the QB position, building a report and timing with the WRs is critical. The CBA has reduced practice time for NFL teams so getting all the practice reps possible is very important. It's why back up QBs have been getting fewer practice reps.

NFL offense has become more pass heavy so the QB position has gained importance over the last 20 years. So losing the starting QB for 1/4 of the season is huge.

Finally, QBs are really expensive. Finding a capable back up would be really tough on its own. Then you have to fit that QB under the cap. And that QB is taking up resources that could be used to improve the team in other ways. Nearly all teams have 1 good QB and if that guy goes down the team is screwed. Teams have several RBs and CBs. It's like a shortstop vs. a pitcher. There is one SS who plays and there are usually 3 or so pitchers who play each game.

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A team source told SNY's Ralph Vacchiano that Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray is "probably a little too small" for the Giants.

The Giants "prefer to stick to the established measurables they have for a prototypical quarterback," Vacchiano notes. The Giants' organization emphasizes conventional wisdom and inside-the-box thinking, and they haven't started a quarterback that measures below 6-feet since 5-foot-11 Gary Wood went 0-6 in 1966. And "the philosophy hasn't changed all that much (in that over half-century timeframe)," Vacchiano confirms. 6-foot-3 Dwayne Haskins, 6-foot-4 Drew Lock, and 6-foot-5 Daniel Jones appear to be likelier candidates to succeed 6-foot-4 Eli Manning than 5-foot-9 Murray.
Source: SNY.com

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8 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

A team source told SNY's Ralph Vacchiano that Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray is "probably a little too small" for the Giants.

The Giants "prefer to stick to the established measurables they have for a prototypical quarterback," Vacchiano notes. The Giants' organization emphasizes conventional wisdom and inside-the-box thinking, and they haven't started a quarterback that measures below 6-feet since 5-foot-11 Gary Wood went 0-6 in 1966. And "the philosophy hasn't changed all that much (in that over half-century timeframe)," Vacchiano confirms. 6-foot-3 Dwayne Haskins, 6-foot-4 Drew Lock, and 6-foot-5 Daniel Jones appear to be likelier candidates to succeed 6-foot-4 Eli Manning than 5-foot-9 Murray.
Source: SNY.com

And that 1966 Giants team that 5-11 Gary Wood started at QB for, was the WORST team in the NFL that year, 1-12-1and lost games by scores like 52-7 to the Cowboys, 55-14 to the Rams, and 72-41 to the 'Skins.   The other QB that year was future Colts' Super Bowl QB, Earl Morrall.

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1 hour ago, eaterfan said:

They weren't the QB. From this question I get the impression you don't follow football, so I'll try to break it down. 

The QB is the most cerebral position in football. They need to know all the plays in the playbook, read defenses, and choose where to distribute the ball. College QBs often enroll early in school to get a headstart on learning the things. 

In addition to just the increased mental demands of the QB position, building a report and timing with the WRs is critical. The CBA has reduced practice time for NFL teams so getting all the practice reps possible is very important. It's why back up QBs have been getting fewer practice reps.

NFL offense has become more pass heavy so the QB position has gained importance over the last 20 years. So losing the starting QB for 1/4 of the season is huge.

Finally, QBs are really expensive. Finding a capable back up would be really tough on its own. Then you have to fit that QB under the cap. And that QB is taking up resources that could be used to improve the team in other ways. Nearly all teams have 1 good QB and if that guy goes down the team is screwed. Teams have several RBs and CBs. It's like a shortstop vs. a pitcher. There is one SS who plays and there are usually 3 or so pitchers who play each game.

I get that much, I'm just wondering a bit more specifically what the reason might be that he couldn't play baseball between say, spring training and July?

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4 hours ago, Dochalo said:

it's not the team's perspective.  it's reality.  

7 rounds of a football draft.  all players from college and a trace smattering from some euro league

40 rounds of a baseball draft.  plus and intl sign period.  players starting as young at 16.  The Angels have 8 levels of minor league players.  

If football or basketball felt they were missing out on a pool of players, they would make further adjustments and increase the number of developmental levels.  

Guys from the NBA and NFL drafts walk through the door and are made starters.  Often.  

When't the last time we've seen an mlb draft pick in the majors the same year?  

Other sports have more predictable talent.  Therefore, they get more money.  

when you speak of money given to players and projecting recouping that money, its very much the team perspective.  The players are certainly not factoring that into their decisions.
The bulk of the rest of this post though actually supports my view, players are choosing other sports due to the money, and the fact that they walk right into the glory over working their way up. 

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1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I get that much, I'm just wondering a bit more specifically what the reason might be that he couldn't play baseball between say, spring training and July?

I don't think an NFL team would like it - they want people who only want to play football. They want robots, especially from their QBs. Josh Rosen faced backlash for having interests that aren't football. But in reality, I couldn't see a baseball team agreeing to this. Who wants a player who will never help them make a playoff push or help them in the playoffs? Who would use a spot on the 25 or 40 man roster for that? Either the player is good enough that his absence at the end of the season would hurt the team or he's not good enough to warrant a roster spot.

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this will give you an idea what a team requires from their players. QBs are a special breed, however. they train year-round. the game is completely different than what it once was. no team would allow their QB to go off and play baseball for 5 months. it just isn't going to happen. https://247sports.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/Bolt/Eagles-begin-defense-of-Super-Bowl-title-as-offseason-workout-program-begins-117381468/

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7 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/01/kyler-murray-nfl-draft-height-tall-oklahoma-football-baseball-size-oakland-a

Oklahoma football lists him at 5-foot-10 and 195 pounds, Oklahoma baseball says he’s 5-foot-11, as does Google.

But especially for athletes on the shorter side, it’s possible their official sizes are exaggerated a little – and some have pointed out that he might actually be a few inches shorter. Last week on First Take, Stephen A. Smith praised Murray’s talent and speed, but said “it’s kind and generous to say he’s 5-9.”

Well, Mike Houck, Oklahoma’s assistant athletics director for strategic communications, took issue with that, and he tweeted Murray’s exact measured height from the beginning of the 2018 college football season, which is 5-foot-9 and 7/8 inches in socks.

Exaggerated size...see Taylor Ward

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Not only was it baseball vs. football, it was the Oakland A's - one of the shittiest franchises in the major leagues.

What's his upside in baseball - toil for a few years in the bushes, get screwed by the club by being brought up after May, then, if he does well, be auctioned off in the annual A's fire sale?

 

F that.

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