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Mr Meeseeks

It's just 5 billions dollars like give him the wall

91 posts in this topic

36 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I am white. And have been registered Republican the last 20 years.

Well good.  Proof positive that ignorance doesn’t discriminate by political party.  Both sides!!!

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58 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

 

2) Illegal immigration does not cost as much as you, or Trump, think. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/dec/05/donald-trump/donald-trumps-false-claim-about-cost-illegal-immig/

Despite popular opinion, they DO pay taxes. Sales tax applies to EVERYONE. Rent (and therefore contributions to property taxes from rent) applies to EVERYONE. They are not coming to use welfare, if anything, they are less likely to use it for fear of getting caught. Yes, their kids are being educated in US schools, but that is not the problem with funding (it's all the property tax offsets that corporations squeeze from local government go get them to build facilities there--which is, in fact, a form of welfare).

Have you been to an emergency room in the last ten years? 

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On 1/10/2019 at 9:07 AM, fan_since79 said:

Chuck and Nancy want Trump to blink first and go against his signature campaign promise, thus severely hurting his chances of winning reelection. This is another in an endless series of continuing resolutions to keep the government open, but they're standing their ground over the concept of a wall, or fence, or whatever you want to call it. $5.7 billion is a few pennies compared to the federal budget, but the principle is that Trump's wall must be stopped at all costs. If they give in now, Trump will be seen as having won the battle and thus fulfilling his campaign promise.

The Dems are not interested in legislating for the American people. The goal is to take down Trump. Period. They really don't recognize him as a legitimate president. They have to stop him now, there's no tomorrow. 2020 is just around the corner, and if Trump wins this stare-down, they can kiss the White House goodbye for four more years. The stakes are as high as ever.

 

 

This is the part that kills me.  For people like me in the middle its the worst thing they could do. 
If they had accepted his rumored offer to stop the shutdown if they promised to negotiate in good faith at a later date i would have had huge respect for them for doing whats right for all concerned.  Standing by thier guns (if thats still allowed to be said), is the worst possible thing they could do to anyone looking to them to set the right example. 
They literally dont care about those affected, they care about trying to embarrass Trump. 

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Read something somewhere, that he consulted with contractors and not actual structural engineers when putting the wall deal together.

Big issue is that the type of wall being proposed could cause serious flooding around the wall and vicinity during rainstorms.   Not what San Diego area, El Paso, or numerous smaller cities need to hear.

Edit:  Mark alluded to this one on page 2.

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On 1/10/2019 at 9:07 AM, fan_since79 said:

Chuck and Nancy want Trump to blink first and go against his signature campaign promise, thus severely hurting his chances of winning reelection. This is another in an endless series of continuing resolutions to keep the government open, but they're standing their ground over the concept of a wall, or fence, or whatever you want to call it. $5.7 billion is a few pennies compared to the federal budget, but the principle is that Trump's wall must be stopped at all costs. If they give in now, Trump will be seen as having won the battle and thus fulfilling his campaign promise.

The Dems are not interested in legislating for the American people. The goal is to take down Trump. Period. They really don't recognize him as a legitimate president. They have to stop him now, there's no tomorrow. 2020 is just around the corner, and if Trump wins this stare-down, they can kiss the White House goodbye for four more years. The stakes are as high as ever.

 

 

Trumpsters see him fighting like crazy for the wall. We'll still re-elect him.  It's the Republican Party that put him in this fight.  Mitch McConnell can't dig up 9 Dems to deal with?  Maybe he could offer them something for the state they represent.

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50 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Read something somewhere, that he consulted with contractors and not actual structural engineers when putting the wall deal together.

Big issue is that the type of wall being proposed could cause serious flooding around the wall and vicinity during rainstorms.   Not what San Diego area, El Paso, or numerous smaller cities need to hear.

Edit:  Mark alluded to this one on page 2.

What about the Army Corps of Engineers?  

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6 hours ago, Mark68 said:

The wall is a stupid, unnecessary,  money pit. You think that the cost to build it will be it? How much is going to have to be budgeted every year for goddamn maintenance?

It will not serve its stated purpose. How high does it need to be? 30 ft? 45? You'll just see a black market for 31 or 46 ft ladders. 

The vast majority of the drugs coming into this country come through the existing ports of entry. The wall will have no effect on that, whatsoever.

And there's the whole issue of environmental damage (yeah, yeah, Red Hat Cult members give two fucks about the environment).

Then the whole issue of eminent domain and seizure of land to build the thing...

 

What about the drugs and people who do not come thru the ports of entry? Did you see Jim Acosta's report?

I didn't see any drugs or people coming thru where he was.

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/drug-smugglers-mexico-use-border-crossings-spite-walls-n724341

"Smugglers aren’t intimidated by the three hurdles in San Diego County or the nearly 700 miles of barriers currently built along the border. Instead, they target the numerous legal entry points to pass into the U.S."

If they're being smuggled across or over the current fence, Trump's wall won't change that. Smugglers can still build tunnels underneath, throw bags of drugs over the wall, or use drones. The wall won't end that.

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On 1/11/2019 at 9:44 AM, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

Holy identity politics Batman.

Thats all there seems top be any more, well at least from the left.  the right doesnt care as long as you have your bible in hand which is equally asinine. 

 

On 1/11/2019 at 10:30 AM, GrittyVeterans said:

Lol no this is a collective failure of our government to negotiate and find common ground on something that is a negligible financial burden compared to our crazy spending in other areas. 

If Schumer and Pelosi were truly concerned with the American people they'd say: "sure, you can have your wall, only if you cut military spending by X percent". 

 

But they just want to be reelected and keep cashing their checks


It's funny how the politicians people choose to support are able to outsmart them so easily. I guess that happens when your head is in the sand

You cant possibly think they care about any people?  its all about political power to them, who that affects is irrelevant. 

 

On 1/11/2019 at 10:58 AM, Mark68 said:

1) Illegal immigration is down across the board. It has been decreasing over the last decade. Not just where a wall was built, over the ENTIRE BORDER. http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/

2) Illegal immigration does not cost as much as you, or Trump, think. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/dec/05/donald-trump/donald-trumps-false-claim-about-cost-illegal-immig/

Despite popular opinion, they DO pay taxes. Sales tax applies to EVERYONE. Rent (and therefore contributions to property taxes from rent) applies to EVERYONE. They are not coming to use welfare, if anything, they are less likely to use it for fear of getting caught. Yes, their kids are being educated in US schools, but that is not the problem with funding (it's all the property tax offsets that corporations squeeze from local government go get them to build facilities there--which is, in fact, a form of welfare).

3) The wall will do nothing to prevent immigrants who are already here from overstaying their visas. https://www.apnews.com/011c4167bffd410ebfd8e5a3bf5c4781

4) Just because the border mostly lies in the desert doesn't mean there won't be environmental impacts. Hell, there have been environmental impacts to Joshua Tree NP since the shutdown. https://www.businessinsider.com/environmental-effects-trump-border-wall-regulations-2017-8

Deserts are also prone to the occasional flash flood, which the wall will do nothing to mitigate. https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/trumps-border-wall-cause-deadly-flooding-texas-federal-officials-planning-build-anyway/

4) The wall would also violate international treaty (not that Trump cares). https://thinkprogress.org/trumps-plan-to-build-a-wall-in-the-rio-grande-floodplain-is-both-absurd-and-illegal-9b2fe78df789/

5) How deep is the wall going to be? Tunnels are being dug under the border now. I don't see how that would stop with the building of the wall.

6) You never did address the eminent domain issue...

Illegal immigration has been a talking point for every single president since Reagan, yes that included Obama.  Even Shumer has spoken against it till his party became all about identity over issue.   
I wonder if those who believe its lower than ever have considered that this is due to less enforcement, not actually reduction.  
The wall is asinine, no question, as long as the benefits remain no wall is going to do shit, you stop it by stopping the freebees which clearly neither side has any interest in doing. 

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On 1/10/2019 at 11:28 PM, full circle said:

No you couldn’t.  All top Democrats are on record saying the need for a wall.  Suddenly, not anymore.  What changed?

I certainly don't recall this, and I keep a fairly close watch on politics.

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7 hours ago, floplag said:

The wall is asinine, no question, as long as the benefits remain no wall is going to do shit, you stop it by stopping the freebees which clearly neither side has any interest in doing. 

Precisely. Until the incentive to enter is removed, no physical barrier will do a damned thing except drain resources that could have been used for something more beneficial.

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14 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Precisely. Until the incentive to enter is removed, no physical barrier will do a damned thing except drain resources that could have been used for something more beneficial.

Unfortunately with a $15/hr minimum wage the incentive to come here is only going to increase.

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So Trump shut down the government because the Dems won't budge on giving him a $5 billion wall.  So we are shut down for over 3 weeks now.  With the Dems and Trump still not budging on the wall.  All the talk is over the wall, and what it can and cannot let in, and if it will be worth it.

Facts are though.  That the shutdown itself is costing everybody more than if we gave him the damn wall.

 

Cost of the Government Shutdown? Billions and Rising. It's Cheaper To Keep the Government Running

 

How much is the Trump Shutdown costing America? As much as half a billion dollars a day

 

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