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One Bold Idea....

41 posts in this topic

The Angels trade Zack Cozart and Kole Calhoun for Wil Myers.....hear me out.

The Angels don't need Cozart. With Fletcher, Ward, Jones and Rengifo all close to ready, the future of the infield won't require Zack's presence. And Calhoun? It should not be difficult to upgrade over him, and regardless, 2019 would be his last in an Angels uniform. Wil Myers is coming off a down season, but is smack dab in the middle of his prime and is an annual 30 HR 20 SB candidate and middle of the order presence, so long as he's healthy. In 2019, he could play RF, and 2020 and beyond, he could slide over to 1B to make room for Jo Adell. 

Now let's look at the numbers. Myers is owed 73 million over the next four years. By trading Zack Cozart, who is owed 25 million across the next two, and Kole Calhoun, who is owed 11.5 (includes buyout), Myers would cost the Angels around 4 years, 37 million. Extremely reasonable given his upside. And here is perhaps the best part, Myers only makes 5 million in 2019, which means the Angels would be shaving 18 million off the 2019 payroll. They could very easily sign Mike Moustakas to a one year deal (you know Eppler loves those) and a decent reliever at that rate. 

SS Simmons, CF Trout DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 3B Moustakas, RF Myers

The top and middle portion of the lineup would be very dangerous.

And why would the Padres do this? They need a 3B or SS, which Cozart fills, they could flip Calhoun at the deadline, which only further clarifies their OF log jam, and total, they save 37 million in the long run. Cozart serves as a bridge until Tatis arrives and Urias is fully developed. And for a cash strapped team like San Diego, an extra 37 million can go a very long way. 

I know, it sounds a little crazy, but it could work out for both sides. 

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I love the idea. 

 

But I don’t think the Pads would be willing to get rid of Wil Myers just to shed payroll. I’m sure they would want something else like stated above. And losing Barria would hurt bad. But I don’t know shit. 

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1 hour ago, Second Base said:

The Angels trade Zack Cozart and Kole Calhoun for Wil Myers.....hear me out.

The Angels don't need Cozart. With Fletcher, Ward, Jones and Rengifo all close to ready, the future of the infield won't require Zack's presence. And Calhoun? It should not be difficult to upgrade over him, and regardless, 2019 would be his last in an Angels uniform. Wil Myers is coming off a down season, but is smack dab in the middle of his prime and is an annual 30 HR 20 SB candidate and middle of the order presence, so long as he's healthy. In 2019, he could play RF, and 2020 and beyond, he could slide over to 1B to make room for Jo Adell. 

Now let's look at the numbers. Myers is owed 73 million over the next four years. By trading Zack Cozart, who is owed 25 million across the next two, and Kole Calhoun, who is owed 11.5 (includes buyout), Myers would cost the Angels around 4 years, 37 million. Extremely reasonable given his upside. And here is perhaps the best part, Myers only makes 5 million in 2019, which means the Angels would be shaving 18 million off the 2019 payroll. They could very easily sign Mike Moustakas to a one year deal (you know Eppler loves those) and a decent reliever at that rate. 

SS Simmons, CF Trout DH Ohtani, LF Upton, 3B Moustakas, RF Myers

The top and middle portion of the lineup would be very dangerous.

And why would the Padres do this? They need a 3B or SS, which Cozart fills, they could flip Calhoun at the deadline, which only further clarifies their OF log jam, and total, they save 37 million in the long run. Cozart serves as a bridge until Tatis arrives and Urias is fully developed. And for a cash strapped team like San Diego, an extra 37 million can go a very long way. 

I know, it sounds a little crazy, but it could work out for both sides. 

Cant wait for Moose to sign elsewhere so we can stop talking about him.

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.  Wil Myers is a good player that would fit needs the Angels have and make the line up substantially better.  I’m all for taking his contract and bringing him on.  I’d take the contract and give them prospects.  Happily. 

Edited by UndertheHalo

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Interesting. I like this deal for the Angels but I don’t think the Padres are ready to let go of Wil Myers. Also, they would need to be ok increasing their 2019 payroll by about $18.5 M. 

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Looking closer, I’d say this is a good idea for the Angels. Not sure about Padres. But Myers’ numbers on offense and flexibility on defense should greatly help the Angels. I’d do this trade. 

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11 hours ago, Second Base said:

Now let's look at the numbers. Myers is owed 73 million over the next four years. By trading Zack Cozart, who is owed 25 million across the next two, and Kole Calhoun, who is owed 11.5 (includes buyout), Myers would cost the Angels around 4 years, 37 million.

Off the top...  I think this is one of the better proposals offered up here and Myers is someone who does have upside instead of a name people recognize as is often the case..  but I'm not sure the Angels see the value here.   Allow me to explain my reasoning.

I'm not following your math...  unless you mean an ADDITIONAL 37 million, then the math is off..   The Angels trading away the money due to Cozart and Calhoun doesn't mean they no long have to pay Myers...   Dude would still be due 73 million over 4 years.   It would still be a 18.25 mil tax hit per year and 22.5 mil in each of the three years starting in 2020.   They absolutely get to cheat that payroll data in year one but, that's 67 million dollars due after this season .vs 12.6 mil to Cozart next season and done.   As much as I like Myers, I'm not sure the guy would get 18.25 mil on the open market after 5 years of 106 OPS offense unless he has some serious uptick in performance.  That 131 OPS+ season his rookie year is somewhat of a memory at this point and while he offers positional flexibility and could move to first base once someone like Adell would be ready, MLB 1B who average an OPS+ of 106-110 get released these days instead of paying them even 5 mil.

I'm not trying to poop on the guy, I still believe he could see a breakout but at 28 now, he's looking more and more like someone who is going to fail to live up to his advanced billing as the next Tim Salmon.   

9 hours ago, Glen said:

Calhoun can't have much trade value. He's coming off of an awful year, and he has one year remaining on his contract at 10.5 million. I can't see why a team like the Padres would want him.

Calhoun's value if we can term it that is that it's a one year deal and he has a recent track record of success.   He's been worse the last three years but he's also posted the best OPS+ in a single season between the two 116 to 115.   He's also the better defender.   Mostly I can see a team like the Padres finding value in 1/10.5 plus 2/25 .vs 4/73.  To make my point more clear... after this yr it becomes 3/67 .vs 1/12.6   Ultimately IMO, that's also what would keep the Angels for pursuing such a deal.   18.25 mil in 2021 and 2022, is money they wouldn't be able to allocate to other spots.  While it would allow them to trade off their internal minor league assets -- they likely (under Eppler), would value the surplus value they could get out of those younger players than they would the value of Myers.

Get the Padres to pay down some of that money or work the deal so both teams are throwing in surplus value with prospects and maybe they could work something mutually beneficial.

 

Edited by Inside Pitch

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Just now, Blarg said:

I don't think Myers pushes the needle for the money owed. 

Thats it in a nutshell.   

If the Angels didn't have a ready replacement coming the deal makes a lot more sense but if things go as the team envisions they would be forced to move Myers off of RF. while owing him 67 mil the following three years .vs Upton and his 72 mil over that span.   Since the Angels have no clue whether Upton can play 1B very well then we are talking about moving Myers back to 1st, where his paycheck and his offense don't line up very well.   I'd suggest giving him a longer look at 3B, but the reason the Padres are supposedly in such need of a 3B must be because they don't believe he can handle the position on an everyday basis.  Also, given his injury history, 3B would kill him.

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The Angels would be creating two holes in the everyday lineup and adding one player. It’s a lot to ask both Fletcher and Ward to be everyday contributors who are better than Cozart. Also, if you put Myers in RF how much better, if at all, is he than an average Calhoun? (Not just the 2018 Calhoun, but the average over the last 3 years Calhoun.)

From the Padres perspective, they’re adding a ton of 2019 salary and not getting any long term help in terms of a prospect. They’re also adding two players coming off bad years and on the wrong side of 30, which is not all that attractive. 

Financially, although they are cutting a lot of salary from 20-22, the books don’t always work for that to be a workable trade off. Without direct knowledge of their financials, I can’t say if it would or not. 

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Im not sure i see the benefit for us.  He may have a ton of potential but he has yet to come close to replicating his rookie numbers in the following 5 years.  
If anything i think we might be doing SD a favor on this one and I certainly wouldnt add any more.   If were taking on an added 37M it needs to be a definite upgrade, i dont belive this would be.

For whatever its worth fangraphs is projecting Calhoun to have basically the same year as meyers save for a few less HR."
KC:  243/324/410 1.9 WAR 21 HR
WM:  240/322/434 1.9 WAR 25 HR

and that say nothing about clogging the spot in front of Adell or other payroll concerns over the extra years .

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I think I'd rather maintain our payroll flexibility for 2020-2022 instead of committing 68mil to Myers over that three years.  As IP mentioned, you can get similar to maybe slightly less production for a lot less money.  Even if we have to do a series of 1yr deals on guys should Ward, Thaiss, Bour etc not work out, you still keep your options open for later.  

That 68 mil is possibly almost halfway to getting Gerrit Cole who will likely command a bit more money than Corbin.  He might even get a Max Scherzer type contract.  Hopefully not that high.  But my guess is something in the range of 6/160 to 7/190.  

Personally think the top of the rotation starter will be the missing piece for us and I'd like to see the Halos maintain their ability to get something like that.  

I also think Cozart becomes more tradeable next off season with only one year left on his deal and if he has a decent season.  

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10 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

This seems like the kind of trade that both teams look at and say... 'no no no...'

 

If im SD i take it before Epp can change his mind actually, its all win for them unless Meyers suddenly becomes a superstar which would appear unlikely at this point 

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13 minutes ago, floplag said:

If im SD i take it before Epp can change his mind actually, its all win for them unless Meyers suddenly becomes a superstar which would appear unlikely at this point 

San Diego still thinks they can compete. They have a lot of prospects coming up and are trying to fill out their rosters with quality veterans. Meyers only makes $5 mil this year. I can see them being opened to this move next season depending on how things work out but it's not like they closing in on the salary cap.

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20 hours ago, Glen said:

Calhoun can't have much trade value. He's coming off of an awful year, and he has one year remaining on his contract at 10.5 million. I can't see why a team like the Padres would want him.

This is the real issue with any trade involving Calhoun. He hasn't been reliable for a while now, and I don't see any club making a deal for him in the blind hope that it will magically happen now.

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21 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Angels would be creating two holes in the everyday lineup and adding one player. It’s a lot to ask both Fletcher and Ward to be everyday contributors who are better than Cozart. Also, if you put Myers in RF how much better, if at all, is he than an average Calhoun? (Not just the 2018 Calhoun, but the average over the last 3 years Calhoun.)

From the Padres perspective, they’re adding a ton of 2019 salary and not getting any long term help in terms of a prospect. They’re also adding two players coming off bad years and on the wrong side of 30, which is not all that attractive. 

Financially, although they are cutting a lot of salary from 20-22, the books don’t always work for that to be a workable trade off. Without direct knowledge of their financials, I can’t say if it would or not. 

Jeff you seem to often go out of your way to give Calhoun the benefit of the doubt citing either Calhoun 2.0 or looking at a 3 year average.

Why?  I don't really understand when Calhoun went back to stinking after his resurgance.

I think Calhoun is one of the most liked players.  Just about everybody loves the guy.  But I really don't get the optimism on him being good again.

Of course I want that to happen, but I don't think it will.

What am I missing in your optimism?

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12 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Jeff you seem to often go out of your way to give Calhoun the benefit of the doubt citing either Calhoun 2.0 or looking at a 3 year average.

Why?  I don't really understand when Calhoun went back to stinking after his resurgance.

I think Calhoun is one of the most liked players.  Just about everybody loves the guy.  But I really don't get the optimism on him being good again.

Of course I want that to happen, but I don't think it will.

What am I missing in your optimism?

This isn't quite true. He was only really bad the last 17 games/69 plate appearances of September, starting 9/11. Pretty much any average player can have a bad 70 PA.
A little concerning, but it could simply be fatigue, or regressing to some bad habits as the games became more meaningless.

I will cede that we can slice up slashes all day to try and make our argument - for instance, the week leading up to that, he went .185/.410/.296/.707, which obviously, isn't the sexiest slash, but he drew a walk in 9 straight games (more than he struck out in that time) so it's not like he was totally lost at the plate. Tack on another week before that, and it's a .216/.369/.314/.683 slash - again, not sexy, but a solid OBP and probably a pretty reasonable slash if you were to pull any 2-week gap out of an 'average' player's season.

In the month before he crashed in September, he still slashed a very Kole Calhoun-ish .252/.358/.388/.746 from Aug. 10 to Sept. 10.

I've been raising the flag on Calhoun for a few seasons now, but I feel pretty good about him in 2019. I think having Reed in the dugout will help - he obviously had some impact on him - and I think a .250/.325/.425/.750 season should be reasonable.
 

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4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Jeff you seem to often go out of your way to give Calhoun the benefit of the doubt citing either Calhoun 2.0 or looking at a 3 year average.

Why?  I don't really understand when Calhoun went back to stinking after his resurgance.

I think Calhoun is one of the most liked players.  Just about everybody loves the guy.  But I really don't get the optimism on him being good again.

Of course I want that to happen, but I don't think it will.

What am I missing in your optimism?

Mainly because there was a tangible difference in his swing and approach mixed in there. 

Very often when players are going good or bad and you ask them why they say “I don’t know. I’m doing the same thing.” That implies it’s all just the random chance of baseball. For a random stretch of time, your line drives find gloves or your bloopers drop. Sometimes your timing gets a little out of whack or you get impatient and swing at some bad pitches. All along, it’s the same swing, though. 

That wasn’t the case with Calhoun. 

He made a tangible change in June, and he didn’t make a tangible change in September. That’s why i believe the upswing is more legit than the downswing. Also, for more than two months of his upswing he had about a .930 OPS. That was not sustainable. What happened at the end was probably just the usual “law of averages” stuff. He was still hitting the ball just as hard. His problem was he was swinging at too many pitches, which is natural when you get in a slump. It makes it worse. But it doesn’t go on forever. 

So i think it’s reasonable to think the entire body of his work over the last 90ish games with his new swing is reasonably close to what he is now. That was an .800 OPS. And even if he slides all the way down to .770, that still enough to warrant his spot in the lineup, when added to his glove. 

And it doesn’t hurt that the coaches who helped build Calhoun 2.0 are now going to be with him every day. 

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1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Mainly because there was a tangible difference in his swing and approach mixed in there. 

Very often when players are going good or bad and you ask them why they say “I don’t know. I’m doing the same thing.” That implies it’s all just the random chance of baseball. For a random stretch of time, your line drives find gloves or your bloopers drop. Sometimes your timing gets a little out of whack or you get impatient and swing at some bad pitches. All along, it’s the same swing, though. 

That wasn’t the case with Calhoun. 

He made a tangible change in June, and he didn’t make a tangible change in September. That’s why i believe the upswing is more legit than the downswing. Also, for more than two months of his upswing he had about a .930 OPS. That was not sustainable. What happened at the end was probably just the usual “law of averages” stuff. He was still hitting the ball just as hard. His problem was he was swinging at too many pitches, which is natural when you get in a slump. It makes it worse. But it doesn’t go on forever. 

So i think it’s reasonable to think the entire body of his work over the last 90ish games with his new swing is reasonably close to what he is now. That was an .800 OPS. And even if he slides all the way down to .770, that still enough to warrant his spot in the lineup, when added to his glove. 

And it doesn’t hurt that the coaches who helped build Calhoun 2.0 are now going to be with him every day. 

Fair.  Thanks.

I love the guy.  I would be very happy if he was a significant offensive contributor.

Heart/Brain/Gut analysis:

My heart pulls for him.

My brain isn't sure because. . .

My gut is whatever caused the problem is still lingering and ready to cause problems again.

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1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Fair.  Thanks.

I love the guy.  I would be very happy if he was a significant offensive contributor.

Heart/Brain/Gut analysis:

My heart pulls for him.

My brain isn't sure because. . .

My gut is whatever caused the problem is still lingering and ready to cause problems again.

from a practical standpoint, they're not gonna pay someone else to do what they're already paying Calhoun 10m for.  Especially when they likely view his replacement as less than a year away.  

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