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floplag

liberal Dems turning on moderates?

19 posts in this topic

I am legit curious what people think of this.  I found it pretty reprehensible myself.
Those who are actually doing what they were elected to do, which is represent those who elected them, are being attacked by the liberal extremes to get on board and do what the party wants, over what the people want. 
And for some damn reason our favorite freshman is the one leading the threats?  
I suspect this will not end well for the party.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-democrats-explode-in-recriminations-as-liberals-lash-out-at-moderates/ar-BBUdVVT?li=BBnb7Kz&fbclid=IwAR2HVoVD_7QCDzx5qNp7_jg4wkX5FqNN6nSkxvSPjHz7JN2nCTwIfCYFv78

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I don't think the far left or far right is a good indicator of what the majority of voters on either side actually support.  Everyone is a fan of "free" stuff until it comes time to pay for it.  Cortez is the flavor of the week who will continue to get press but when it comes to what she's put forward (green deal) so far it's not feasible because of the cost and the reality of trying to implement it.  You can't just flip a switch and undo things that took decades to build which are now a major part of our economy.  Start small with realistic goals and work towards those then build on them.  Unfortunately now more than ever with social media and constant in your face reporting being the loudest person with the wildest claims is what gets the most attention.

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20 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

I don't think the far left or far right is a good indicator of what the majority of voters on either side actually support.  Everyone is a fan of "free" stuff until it comes time to pay for it.  Cortez is the flavor of the week who will continue to get press but when it comes to what she's put forward (green deal) so far it's not feasible because of the cost and the reality of trying to implement it.  You can't just flip a switch and undo things that took decades to build which are now a major part of our economy.  Start small with realistic goals and work towards those then build on them.  Unfortunately now more than ever with social media and constant in your face reporting being the loudest person with the wildest claims is what gets the most attention.

It isnt about her really, its about the idea that shes being allowed to do and say what she has.  she either clearly has leadership support or they are letting her hang herself, i suspect the former.   Pelosi sanctioned the meeting and apparently supporter her so... this is a party problem that goes well beyond AOC. 

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She's been outspoken ever since she beat out the incumbent in the primary which guaranteed she would get elected.  She can say and do what she pleases just like any other of the elected officials especially with social media, see the idiot in the WH, the other new D who had to apologize for her remarks and countless people on the right who say stupid things.  Right now she's believing her own hype but the moderates know that currently in a general election people too far left aren't going to appeal to the voters they need to take the WH back.  I've seen a lot of discussions on another board that leans left and even the most ardent posters from the left are pointing out how the democrats look like they're going to cannibalize themselves in 2020.  Only time will tell and 2016 proved anything can happen but I don't think we're at a point yet where far left is representative of what most people want.

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42 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

She's been outspoken ever since she beat out the incumbent in the primary which guaranteed she would get elected.  She can say and do what she pleases just like any other of the elected officials especially with social media, see the idiot in the WH, the other new D who had to apologize for her remarks and countless people on the right who say stupid things.  Right now she's believing her own hype but the moderates know that currently in a general election people too far left aren't going to appeal to the voters they need to take the WH back.  I've seen a lot of discussions on another board that leans left and even the most ardent posters from the left are pointing out how the democrats look like they're going to cannibalize themselves in 2020.  Only time will tell and 2016 proved anything can happen but I don't think we're at a point yet where far left is representative of what most people want.

Oh no no no i could not disagree with that more.  The far left is anything but what most people want, 2016 proved exactly that.  I do think most people want a lot of things the left supports, just perhaps not to the level they want them to go. 

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2 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

I don't think the far left or far right is a good indicator of what the majority of voters on either side actually support.  Everyone is a fan of "free" stuff until it comes time to pay for it.  Cortez is the flavor of the week who will continue to get press but when it comes to what she's put forward (green deal) so far it's not feasible because of the cost and the reality of trying to implement it.  You can't just flip a switch and undo things that took decades to build which are now a major part of our economy.  Start small with realistic goals and work towards those then build on them.  Unfortunately now more than ever with social media and constant in your face reporting being the loudest person with the wildest claims is what gets the most attention.

Are you sure about that? I honestly see the party moving this direction and embracing her ideologies.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/427386-kamala-harris-endorses-ocasio-cortezs-green-new-deal

https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2019/02/2020-democrats-respond-green-new-deal/

The 2020 heavy weights are buying what she' s selling

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1 hour ago, floplag said:

Oh no no no i could not disagree with that more.  The far left is anything but what most people want,

isn't that what he said?

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17 minutes ago, Jason said:

Are you sure about that? I honestly see the party moving this direction and embracing her ideologies.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/427386-kamala-harris-endorses-ocasio-cortezs-green-new-deal

https://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2019/02/2020-democrats-respond-green-new-deal/

The 2020 heavy weights are buying what she' s selling

Those articles are 3 and 4 weeks old.  They endorsed it just like Harris/Booker jumped on the Smollet case right when news broke to get more likes and re-tweets, facts and details be damned.  The R's would love to get the deal up for a vote because they know it's a train wreck and so do the D's who aren't complete idiots.  It's akin to a feel good project a kid in middle school would put together for school when it's not financially feasible.  Take it for what it's worth but one estimate for the cost puts it between 51 and 93 TRILLION dollars:

http://fortune.com/2019/02/25/the-green-new-deal-ocasio-cortez/

For fiscal year 2019 federal spending is 4.4T.  You're talking about something that costs way more than any country can afford and would put an end to a lot of jobs that currently drive the US economy.  People will support damn near anything until they realize their taxes will go up to pay for it and in this case a lot of jobs would be gone.  Yes jobs would be created but that wouldn't be an easy transition and people would lose income.  Instead of putting forward something reasonable to move towards greener technologies the former bartender came up with an attempt to not hit one of the park but off of the planet.  

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1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

AOC has been vocally in favor of the party not supporting moderate incumbent democrats in primaries.

I expect that from her, what bother me is Pelosi letting her not only apparently speak for her, but to berate others including more senior members. 

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28 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

And you’re a moderate ? Correct Flop ?

I consider myself one yes. Now whether or not that a moderate dem or rep depends on the year in question as ive voted for both equally in the last 10-20 years.
If im being honest i actually consider myself liberal save for one or two large exceptions.  I just could never conceive going as far left as the party seems to want to today.

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I mean you don’t owe anyone any explanations. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you express a progressive position on much of anything here though.  So that’s an interesting thing for you to say.   Anyway, what is a moderate ? It’s a matter of perspective for sure. 

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14 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I mean you don’t owe anyone any explanations. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you express a progressive position on much of anything here though.  So that’s an interesting thing for you to say.   Anyway, what is a moderate ? It’s a matter of perspective for sure. 

I think that probably depends on what you would consider progressive.   I dont think many of these things are simple black and white concepts. 
In most of them i believe the concept is sound, im just not sure about the implementation of it.   My biggest concern with almost all the so-called progressive platforms is the same, whos going to pay for it?  

I think if im being fair ive been more vocal against the Dems in recent years because i expected better from them and find myself hugely disappointed in what they have become.   I do not think history will judge identity politics in a positive light, and i hold them much more responsible for that then i do the Reps.   They should have addressed it in a very different way instead of stoking fires that had made progress towards going out and are now back to full rage.

Anyway, I dont mind sharing a few ideas, im not ashamed of my views.

I support universal health care, but i think it doesnt matter unless we get a general healthcare reform that asks why an aspirin costs $25 for example.  

Similarly with regard to a living wage, i support it, but simply raising minimum doesnt achieve that in my view.  

I believe in education for all, i think its something we have to do if we are to ever get back to a position of competing on the world stage.   I also feel related to this that teachers should be much better paid.  However, i vehemently believe that social agenda must be removed from education entirely and i think common core is an epic train-wreck.  WE need to get back to educating, not teaching how to pass tests to justify budgets. 

I 100% support the rights of the individual to be whoever they want to be and to have equal protection under the law.  I unquestionably support LGBT rights.  But, its not an absolute in all things, there are exceptions that must be observed.  Take the recent issues with the Olympics and sport accepting trans-gendered athletes, to me thats absurd as it is a potentially huge competitive advantage.   That i do not support as that is not equality.

I believe we need to take better care of the planet, im just not sure i think going back to the days of trains are the answer.  

I support women's rights, including reproductive, but I also think the father has rights that are largely ignored in that equation if we are to hold them legally and financially responsible, which i do.  I am pro-choice, but very much anti-late term.

Freedom of religion, as well as freedom from religion, are unquestionable rights.  I do not believe religion has any role in government or laws, period.  

I do not trust the media anymore.  When they stopped telling us what happens and started telling us what to think, they lost my trust.   I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't that way, and we lost  a large piece of our soul as a nation when we lost that in my view. 

I believe we need election reform in the worst way.  But by that i do not mean simple majority mob rule.  5 cities should not dictate to 50 states regardless of what idea we are talking about, all votes must be counted.  I believe no state, district, or country should be force to block vote and that each should be counted individually. 

I think the two huge things i differ from most progressives on is illegal immigration and the second amendment. 
I do not support or condone illegal immigration in any form nor do i support the idea of amnesty.   I am 100% pro immigration, just not the illegal variety.  That having been said i do support the refugee programs, but not how they are being abused. 
I 100% support the 2A rights of the individual.  I do not hold the tools responsible for the actions of the person behind it.   I believe the reasons we are having the issues we are having today is that we stopped dealing with mental issues to avoid stigmatizing people and that left them free to do things they should not have been able to do. It was an obvious result of a poorly implemented idea.   

I have voted for both parties at both the state and federal level in the last few elections and will never blindly follow any party.  It is their responsibility to earn my vote, not mine to bend to what they want.

I think ive ranted enough, lol  

Sidenote; I also dont really think anything we are seeing today is all that new.   We had the same issues 40 years ago when i was a kid that the kids today see, the only real difference is that we are all more informed in real time. 

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