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UndertheHalo

MLB and the MLBPA made a deal.

81 posts in this topic

Lot of people complaining about the three batter minimum, as if it’s changing something essential to baseball. Hilarious. 

Now, I think it could very well go badly and force an undo, but it could also be quite good. 

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The players union will go after the luxury tax, with an eye towards reversing the youth movement the cost concerns created.  It's gonna be a showdown no matter how early they start discussing it.

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The number of position players pitching could see a significant decrease as well. Under the agreement, players will be designated as position players or pitchers -- with the exception of those who throw 20-plus innings and start 20 games in the field or at DH, who will be two-way players. Position players will be allowed to pitch only in extra innings or when their team is ahead or behind by more than seven runs.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26259301/sources-mlb-deal-includes-1m-hr-derby-bonus

Wonder if this will affect Cowart/Walsh

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Here’s my solution for free agency.  Unless you’ve already signed an extension everyone is a free agent after their age 26 season, regardless of service time.  My thought would be they become a free agent entering their prime.   If you are a phenom you aren’t getting dicked around playing the service time game.  

Now I’m sure there are logic flaws in this or unforeseen unintended consequences, but to me it helps a bit.  If a team has a 19 year old stud they could have 8 years of club control.  They could still keep the arb process after year three so guys like Trout, Harper, Soto and Acuna would still get paid a ton pre free agency if they continue to perform.  

The other thing I would add is a roster spot for a player you signed after a certain age, say 34 years old.  His contract would be free of luxury tax implications.   

Lastly no more draft pick forfeiture for signing any free agents   

 

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Here's a link to a layout of all the changes over this season and next.  Some pretty drastic stuff, like no 40-man roster in September anymore starting in 2020.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-rules-changes

 

A few of the highlights:

2019

Mound visits: The maximum number of mound visits per team will be reduced from six to five per game. MLB had instituted an initial mound-visit limitation prior to the 2018 season.

Trade Deadline: The August waiver trade period will be eliminated. The July 31 Trade Deadline will be the only deadline. Players may still be placed and claimed on outright waivers after July 31, but trades will no longer be permitted after that date.

2020

Active roster provisions: The roster size from Opening Day through Aug. 31 will increase from 25 to 26 (with the minimum number of active players rising from 24 to 25, and roster sizes for doubleheaders rising from 26 to 27).

The 40-man active roster for September will be eliminated. From Sept. 1 through the end of the regular season, all clubs will carry 28 players.

Furthermore, the number of pitchers a club can carry on the active roster will be capped at a certain number, to be decided by the aforementioned joint committee.

To adhere to that rule, clubs will have to designate each of their players as either a pitcher or a position player prior to each player’s first day on the active roster for a given season. That designation cannot change for the remainder of the season. Position players will not be allowed to pitch except in the following scenarios:

• They are designated as a “Two-Way Player.” A player can only qualify for this designation if he accrues at least 20 Major League innings pitched and at least 20 Major League games started as a position player or designated hitter (with at least three plate appearances in each of those games) in either the current or the prior season.

• Extra innings.

• In any game in which his team is losing or winning by more than six runs when he enters as a pitcher

Three-batter minimum for pitchers: Rule 5.10(g) will be amended to require that starting pitchers and relief pitchers must pitch to either a minimum of three batters or to the end of a half-inning, with exceptions for incapacitating injury or illness.

Injured list: The minimum time a player spends on the injured list will be increased back to 15 days from 10, and the minimum assignment period of pitchers who are optionally assigned to the minors will increase from 10 days to 15. 

Edited by Biergott

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Seems like it would be rather difficult to become a two way player if you started out as a position player according to the new rules. And there appears to be either no clarification or restriction on how many games/when a pitcher can play at an offensive position. Under this logic, wouldn’t it be best for teams to declare everyone on the roster a pitcher? Is there any rule on a minimum number of position players a team must carry?

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Regarding the lack of august trades, would players claimed after July 1 then not be eligible for post season play?  I didnt see that specified in my reading.
Im a little surprised more pitchers arent upset at the changes, there are going to be guys left out there longer than before and stats and by extension paydays could suffer.

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Three-batter minimum for pitchers: Rule 5.10(g) will be amended to require that starting pitchers and relief pitchers must pitch to either a minimum of three batters or to the end of a half-inning, with exceptions for incapacitating injury or illness.

Well, that takes care of that rule. Looking forward to a record number of lefty relievers having 24 hour injuries.

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17 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The two way player (Ohtani) rule is plain stupid and without any merit. It should not matter in the least what a player does in the field whether it is play a defensive position or pitch or both in a single game. 

Yeah, this is my biggest complaint out of those rules. It feels like its trying to fix the "problem" of random position players pitching an inning, but like...I'm not super clear on why this is a problem at all in the game. At least they seem to have specifically crafted it to exempt Ohtani from that rule.

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Can someone help me understand this part of the rule...

They are designated as a “Two-Way Player.” A player can only qualify for this designation if he accrues at least 20 Major League innings pitched and at least 20 Major League games started as a position player or designated hitter (with at least three plate appearances in each of those games) in either the current or the prior season.

In this case, because Shoehi Ohtani won't have accrued at east 20 innings as a pitcher this year, he won't be allowed to pitch in 2020 unless it's extra innings?  That's completely unfair!  I'm hoping I'm understanding that wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Biergott said:

They are designated as a “Two-Way Player.” A player can only qualify for this designation if he accrues at least 20 Major League innings pitched and at least 20 Major League games started as a position player or designated hitter (with at least three plate appearances in each of those games) in either the current or the prior season.

Wait wait wait. So, its game #162. You are up by one run, going into the bottom of the ninth. You have a "two-way player" who has currently pitched 19 innings, who didn't pitch in the majors the year before. By the rules, do you HAVE to have him pitch the bottom on the 9th? Otherwise, he only would have completed 19 innings, would thus be in the "hitter" category and not the "two-way" category, and thus his other 19 innings pitched would have been against the rules (if we assume for this scenario that the other 19 innings didn't meet the "hitter pitching" requirements).

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I don't understand why,  but it seems that they are trying to eliminate the 2 way player. Which I think is an exciting new addition & strategy to the game and gives some players a chance to play that may not otherwise had been given a shot. Seems counterproductive to the MLBPA mission.

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1 minute ago, Second Base said:

Can someone help me understand this part of the rule...

They are designated as a “Two-Way Player.” A player can only qualify for this designation if he accrues at least 20 Major League innings pitched and at least 20 Major League games started as a position player or designated hitter (with at least three plate appearances in each of those games) in either the current or the prior season.

In this case, because Shoehi Ohtani won't have accrued at east 20 innings as a pitcher this year, he won't be allowed to pitch in 2020 unless it's extra innings?  That's completely unfair!  I'm hoping I'm understanding that wrong. 

I think that's reading it wrong - I think if he pitched 20 innings in 2020 (which would be the "current" season), he can be a two way player. but, as I pointed out in my above post, that has its own set of issues..

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1 minute ago, krAbs said:

I think that's reading it wrong - I think if he pitched 20 innings in 2020 (which would be the "current" season), he can be a two way player. but, as I pointed out in my above post, that has its own set of issues..

Yes, but until he accrues those 20 innings, Ohtani would then have to pitch exclusively in extra inning games then, correct?

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Just now, Second Base said:

Yes, but until he accrues those 20 innings, Ohtani would then have to pitch exclusively in extra inning games then, correct?

THAT is the big question, imo. That would be how the solve the above scenario I laid out. And, that would be some bullshit.

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28 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The two way player (Ohtani) rule is plain stupid and without any merit. It should not matter in the least what a player does in the field whether it is play a defensive position or pitch or both in a single game. 

I agree. I don’t think it should matter either. I do wonder how that would work for a player like Ohtani who is coming off of a major injury. He will be able to hit, but he will not accumulate the number of innings pitched this season to meet that standard.

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Okay - I think I get it. They are going to limit the number of pitchers you can carry on the team, but two-way players are exempt from that number (if I'm reading this right, that means if they say you can have 13 pitchers on the 25 man roster, and Ohtani was a two-way pitcher, he would not count against that 13 pitcher count). BUT, in 2020, because he isn't pitching this year, he will have to spend next season taking a pitchers slot. So, he would be a designated pitcher, and he would take a slot, but we would still have him DH. This puts us at a competitive disadvantage in 2020, but pays dividends later on when we can essentially carry an extra started on our team (assuming he accumulates the required numbers in 2020).

Edit - actually, in this case what we would do is use him as our ace. He pitches full time, and every once in a while starts as DH - just enough to get 20 games over the year. So, we see a year of him playing full time DH, then a year of him playing (essentially) full time pitcher, then a year of full time, two way action.

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5 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Okay - I think I get it. They are going to limit the number of pitchers you can carry on the team, but two-way players are exempt from that number (if I'm reading this right, that means if they say you can have 13 pitchers on the 25 man roster, and Ohtani was a two-way pitcher, he would not count against that 13 pitcher count). BUT, in 2020, because he isn't pitching this year, he will have to spend next season taking a pitchers slot. So, he would be a designated pitcher, and he would take a slot, but we would still have him DH. This puts us at a competitive disadvantage in 2020, but pays dividends later on when we can essentially carry an extra started on our team (assuming he accumulates the required numbers in 2020).

Edit - actually, in this case what we would do is use him as our ace. He pitches full time, and every once in a while starts as DH - just enough to get 20 games over the year. So, we see a year of him playing full time DH, then a year of him playing (essentially) full time pitcher, then a year of full time, two way action.

 

Exactly this.

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