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OhtaniSan

Angels farm ranked at 21

85 posts in this topic

19 minutes ago, floplag said:

You have, not we.  
The article isnt hard to see why he rated them how he did.  its a volume game to him, add up the numbers kick out a spreadsheet.  Whether or not hes right well see in a few years but any logic suggests that a team with twice the top 100 guys has a better farm. 
Its just one mans opinion, nothing more. 

The problem is that there are a lot of players to follow.. dozens for every single one that will even play a few weeks in MLB. No one can wrap their mind around all of it so we mentally try and simplify. It's why most Angel prospects of recent years have been discounted, because our farm was notoriously bad and historically underwhelming. But none of that really means anything when you have an entirely different group of people running things. These biases find their way into the rankings that others then use to justify their opinions of a system, which are then used in articles like this. 

As fans who follow just THIS franchise we have a lot of knowledge about THIS system that others do not. We can see the significant improvements and we can compare them to different times in our franchises history that lead to some successful groups (early 90's and early 2000s come to mind). We also suffered under Dipoto's draft and prospect philosophy for years and thats why we know better than to look at a high ranking for the Mariners and believe it...  

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27 minutes ago, red321 said:

And yet that's not what he said.

The Los Angeles Angels are extremely thin on quality minor league arms, and the decision to reach for NC State infielder Will Wilson with the No. 15 overall pick did nothing to improve that situation.

The Angel's system has been productive, though outside of Canning and maybe Fletcher and/or Suarez I'm not sure we are seeing anyone who is going to be part of the team long term (people who have recently come up from the minors).. And I'm not sure who on that list you would rate higher. Outside of Adell, the system doesn't seem to have a lot of future all-stars.

Are you trying to be purposely dense?  The article I linked was titled  

2019 MLB Draft Grades: Best and Worst Picks from Monday Results

Guess who the first name listed under the WORST picks was?  Willl Wilson.

FFS, if you're going to call me out for misquoting the guy try not to miss something as obvious as the name of the freaking article and his being listed among the WORST picks.

Once again ... here's the link https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2839384-2019-mlb-draft-grades-best-and-worst-picks-from-monday-results

Edited by Inside Pitch

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7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Are you trying to be purposely dense?  The article I link was titled  

2019 MLB Draft Grades: Best and Worst Picks from Monday Results

Guess who the first name listed under the WORST picks was?  Willl Wilson.

FFS, if you're going to call me out for misquoting the guy try not to miss something as obvious as the name of the freaking article and his being listed among the WORST picks.

Once again ... here's the link https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2839384-2019-mlb-draft-grades-best-and-worst-picks-from-monday-results

He was replying to your first post before you posted the second link.

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13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, then I wonder who will be the better impact player Adell or Kelenic.  Also there is a chance the Angels system will take a step back because Canning graduated.  When you are talking about 4 or 5 impact guys in the farm, when one graduates it will affect the rankings.  Bottom line is our farm is in much better shape by sheer numbers of future major league players.  We have drafted better and signed the better international players since Eppler and Dipoto have taken their respective roles.  

You realize im not arguing that point yes?  I do not think we should be that low, im not defending the guy, and i agree with basically everything you are saying.  There is though a difference between an everyday average player and an impact player, other teams still have more of those projected than we do, which hurts our ratings.  
Im simply saying that i get why he ranked them how he did, its not rocket science.  Do i agree with his ranking, not 100% but its not that different from most others in terms of player to play ratings.   Opinions vary.   At least they got the article out, where are the other sources everyone supposedly trusts?
  

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16 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

They are definitely better than they have been -- if for no other reason because of the two OFer - they are both legit.   Gilbert is a personal favorite of mine too, but I know some question if he has the out pitch to make it at the highest level.   

I'm not as high on Dunn as others (still like him more than Sheffield), but I just want to see him pitch somewhere other than Arkansas.  Dude is 23, that park tends to help pitchers out a great deal and they play a crazy number of day games that always seemed to mask certain performance issues when it was our AA park.   That park pissed me off when we played there, so that's not a slam on the M's -- it just makes it hard to gauge some guys.   Not unlike our current AAA park.

Ender -- any idea why they have kept guys like Fraley and Williams in AA?   
 

I can only assume they kept them in AA because they wanted to keep them with the team while they tried to clinch the first half title (which they did).

Only thing that makes sense to me. No reason Fraley should not be at AAA at this point.

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12 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

The problem is that there are a lot of players to follow.. dozens for every single one that will even play a few weeks in MLB. No one can wrap their mind around all of it so we mentally try and simplify. It's why most Angel prospects of recent years have been discounted, because our farm was notoriously bad and historically underwhelming. But none of that really means anything when you have an entirely different group of people running things. These biases find their way into the rankings that others then use to justify their opinions of a system, which are then used in articles like this. 

As fans who follow just THIS franchise we have a lot of knowledge about THIS system that others do not. We can see the significant improvements and we can compare them to different times in our franchises history that lead to some successful groups (early 90's and early 2000s come to mind). We also suffered under Dipoto's draft and prospect philosophy for years and thats why we know better than to look at a high ranking for the Mariners and believe it...  

There are those though who that is their job, but even among them what matters varies.  This guys thinks we should have taken a different player where most think you take the best available there is no one size fits all. 

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27 minutes ago, Ender said:

It's not #5, but it's not nearly as bad as you all seem to think it is.

Evan White is either just outside the Top 100 list or just inside the Top 100 list depending on where you look. That would give us 6 in the Top 100.

Kelenic, Rodriguez, Gilbert and Justin Dunn are climbing while Sheffield is likely falling ....

They could all bomb out ... but it is what it is.

I really do think we all expect the M's rankings to tank simply because of the Dipoto factor. I think David Fletcher is the first Dipoto pick who has had any real success at the big league level (someone can correct me if Im wrong).

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8 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

He was replying to your first post before you posted the second link.

Except for the fact that my post with the second link was up a good 20 minutes before his response...   

Edited by Inside Pitch

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1 minute ago, floplag said:

There are those though who that is their job, but even among them what matters varies.  This guys thinks we should have taken a different player where most think you take the best available there is no one size fits all. 

I think drafting goes a little further than that these days when you have a limited draft pool bonus money.  If the Angels have a guy ranked slightly higher in the first round but he cost a lot more money then that limits you later in the draft.  If they get a guy they think is just about as good but allows them to draft harder signs later, then it’s probably worth it. 

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7 minutes ago, floplag said:

There are those though who that is their job, but even among them what matters varies.  This guys thinks we should have taken a different player where most think you take the best available there is no one size fits all. 

Very true. It's also true that the rules are regularly changing and that they significantly impact how you draft. He criticizes the Angels for 'reaching' with their first pick, but that is a viable strategy in a system where you might not be happy with the BPA and his contract demands that can limit your flexibility in later rounds. The draft has become very much a game of deciding who is over / undervalued on draft day and less about who is the fifteenth best amateur player.

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4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think drafting goes a little further than that these days when you have a limited draft pool bonus money.  If the Angels have a guy ranked slightly higher in the first round but he cost a lot more money then that limits you later in the draft.  If they get a guy they think is just about as good but allows them to draft harder signs later, then it’s probably worth it. 

also true, but most of that is ffected by the slot as much as anything else. 

 

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Very true. It's also true that the rules are regularly changing and that they significant impact how you draft. He criticizes the Angels for 'reaching' with their first pick, but that is a viable strategy in a system where you might not be happy with the BPA and his contract demands that can limit your flexibility in later rounds. The draft has become very much a game of deciding who is over / undervalued on draft day and less about who is the fifteenth best amateur player.

Its one guy who still believe you draft for need.... probably watches too much NFL or NBA on the side and thinks these kids matter for the next few years.

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10 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Yeah but not everyone reads through the whole thread before commenting.

So, did the author in question call Wilson one of the worst picks in the draft and base that opinion on drafting for need?  Because that's what I commented on and what was implied did not occur.   Links aside -- I wasn't quoting the article, I was quoting the author and his statements on draft.   Even if I had not linked to the second article my statement was factual.

If someone is going play the "gotcha" game, they should at least make sure they're on point.

 

Edited by Inside Pitch

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18 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I really do think we all expect the M's rankings to tank simply because of the Dipoto factor. I think David Fletcher is the first Dipoto pick who has had any real success at the big league level (someone can correct me if Im wrong).

Yeah but even he couldnt muck up getting a ton of guys in all the trades he made.

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If Bleacher Report ranks the Angels at #21, I really don't care.  If they rank the M's at #5, I doesn't bother me at all.  I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

So... when someone asks "where would you rank the Angels farm system?" I think - well very few on this board are even qualified to answer that.  Very few on this board can even name prospects in other organizations - let alone try to evaluate them.

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14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So, did the author in question call Wilson one of the worst picks in the draft and base that opinion on drafting for need?  Because that's what I commented on and what was implied did not occur.   Links aside -- I wasn't quoting the article, I was quoting the author and his statements on draft.   Even if I had not linked to the second article my statement was factual.

If someone is going play the "gotcha" game, they should at least make sure they're on point.

 

laugh

So, you quoted a separate article, without linking or specifying that's what you were doing, and just assumed everyone would know that's the case or follow a link later in the thread...which you didn't actually highlight was in response to your previous unsubstantiated statement?

 

Image result for fail animated gif

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So, did the author in question call Wilson one of the worst picks in the draft and base that opinion on drafting for need?  Because that's what I commented on and what was implied did not occur.   Links aside -- I wasn't quoting the article, I was quoting the author and his statements on draft.   Even if I had not linked to the second article my statement was factual.

If someone is going play the "gotcha" game, they should at least make sure they're on point.

 

I mean, I agree with your take on the author even from the original article. At the same time I think people could take his comment in a different way because he doesn't say it explicitly. The second link is a smoking gun of course, but without him having read it you guys aren't arguing over the same set of facts.

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For some reason this song keeps running through my head now...

You don't tug on superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger
And you don't mess around with...
Edited by True Grich

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1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Yep, ignoring the farm has had a much worse impact than the Pujols contract ever possibly could have.  

Tony fvcking Reagins...

After winning the WS and falling short in the playoffs a few years in a row, the Angels front office completely sold out to win another WS and in turn made sure the Angels would not be successful for a decade.  Combined with a very bad GM hire (Diputo) and holding onto Scioscia five years too long.

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33 minutes ago, red321 said:

laugh

So, you quoted a separate article, without linking or specifying that's what you were doing, and just assumed everyone would know that's the case or follow a link later in the thread...which you didn't actually highlight was in response to your previous unsubstantiated statement?

 

You're right this is on me..   

I mistakenly assumed people would be intelligent enough to understand I was commenting on the author.   The fact that I made reference to his remarks on the draft and not at all to his rankings seemed to make that obvious to me but I clearly gave you too much credit.  Best of all, I linked to the actual commentary when prompted.   All of two minutes later.

In the future Ill try to dumb it down to your level, I promise.

keanu reeves thumbs up GIF

Edited by Inside Pitch

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2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

This guy called Wilson one of the worst picks in the draft because the Angels need pitching....   So he believes drafting for need is a thing in MLB.  

Can someone with more knowledge of the minors and draft answer me this:

Wilson, was picked at #15, MLB had him ranked as the #21 prospect in the draft...

I know pitching is a need, but how is this one of the worst picks in the draft??  Bleacher report is the only place I have seen that Wilson was not a good pick.

Will Wilson | Rank: 21

School: North Carolina StateYear: JuniorPosition: SSAge: 20 DOB: 07/21/1998Bats: R Throws: RHeight: 5'11" Weight: 175 lb.Previously drafted: Never

 

Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 40 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 50

For the second time in five years, North Carolina State could have a shortstop selected in the first round. Wilson isn't as tooled up as Trea Turner or the other top shortstops in a deep college crop, but he has a high floor as a steady up-the-middle defender with surprising power. He was one of four players to hit 10 or more homers in Atlantic Coast Conference games in 2018, joining Giants No. 2 overall pick Joey Bart, Astros first-rounder Seth Beer and Blue Jays second-rounder Griffin Conine.

Though he's not physically imposing, Wilson has quick hands and deceptive strength that give him at least above-average raw power. A right-handed hitter, he has a knack for putting the barrel on the ball. He shows the ability to hit for average and power, and he has done a better job of drawing walks this spring despite his aggressive approach.

The biggest knock on Wilson is his below-average speed. Most big league shortstops run better than that, though some scouts think he can stay at the position because he has quick actions and hands. Others believe his speed and average arm will land him at second base, where he played as a freshman and still would profile well offensively.

 

 

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