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Angel Oracle

Gerrit Cole seems to be a must signing.

56 posts in this topic

This rotation is NOT capable of even closely pitching deep into games.   It desperately needs an anchor who can average 6 innings/start and pitch like at least a #2 starter.

Harvey, Cahill, Allen, Bour, and Calhoun alone clear close to $50 million from payroll.   What arbs are coming this off-season that could be somewhat expensive?  Just Heaney and Skaggs?

They can afford Cole.    Local guy (Orange Lutheran HS), durable guy (since 2015, only one season not making all of his starts), high Ks/decent BBs guy, WHIP just over 1.00 since 2018, and just 29 for most of the 2020 season (likely only just over 1,200 career MLB innings including the post-season, when arriving here)

What's not to like?   If there is a bidding war, I still doubt that in today's game it would go over say 5-6 years for $28-30 million/season.

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He is, but I also think we need an above average catcher to go along with it.  We have zilch in the pipeline at this position, and while we are contending, I don't want to have to worry about the position on a year to year basis anymore.

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I know this is the popular theory, but is it realistic? 
WE have a limited budget. thats what we are being told, and hes likely to be the top FA pitcher next lukewarm stove season.  Every big name team is going to be involved, and we cannot outspend too many of them to think this is actually going to happen.
Unless he just really wants to come here, i dont see it. 
I know were saving the 30 mil blown on mercenaries this year but we have other issues, we cant throw 25ish of it at one guy plus we were already 10M or so above limits if we believe what they say about the budget. 
Id love to see it, but i dont think its feasible unless its what he wants. 

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And looking at the players currently here, and the prospects currently in the system, Cole may need to be the only BIG FA signee until late next decade.

When Ohtani needs his big contract, Upton's is up after 2022 and they can use that money.   

Simba won't need a huge increase after 2020, and Pujols' salary is freed up after 2021.

With a deep enough farm as next decade progresses, they can use it to fill in here and in trades for other needs.

At worse, Arte pays the luxury tax for only ONE season, Pujols' last one under contract.  And thus, he has no lost draft picks or int'l slot money, just pays the tax for that one season. 

There is no better time than this off-season to add a MUCH needed #1/#2 durable starter, without giving up anything other than a 2nd round pick for ONE year only.

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1 minute ago, Glen said:

There will be a handful of teams seriously interested in him, which means he'll be overpaid. I don't see the Angels getting involved in a bidding war.

Normally, that's an affirmative.   But this current pitching rotation is not likely to be able to pitch a normal work load until either 2021 or 2022.  

They need that ONE guy to anchor them. 

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9 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

And looking at the players currently here, and the prospects currently in the system, Cole may need to be the only BIG FA signee until late next decade.

When Ohtani needs his big contract, Upton's is up after 2022 and they can use that money.   

Simba won't need a huge increase after 2020, and Pujols' salary is freed up after 2021.

With a deep enough next decade progresses, they can use it to fill in here and in trades for other needs.

There is no better time than this off-season to add a MUCH needed #1/#2 durable starter, without giving up anything other than a 2nd round pick and some int'l slot money for ONE year only.

They are in a pretty good spot finally -- they also have cost certainty when it comes to Trout and the old man comes off the books soon too.   It's no secret they curtailed their spending post Hamilton but that was the actual plan.   The previous five years have as much bearing on how the team will spend their money as the 5 years prior to that do.  

I have no idea if they will spend, but they should be able to again.

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18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Has anyone actually seen anything coming from the Angels talking about next years budget it's limits or anything remotely along those lines?  

Curious if this has actually been said.

Why would it be significantly different than this season?  Why would we expect them to suddenly be comfortable with spending 20-30 more than they are? 

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3 minutes ago, Glen said:

There will be a handful of teams seriously interested in him, which means he'll be overpaid. I don't see the Angels getting involved in a bidding war.

I dont either...   Yanks and Dodgers are likely the biggest players for him -- both have a ton of money.   Will be interesting to see.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, floplag said:

Why would it be significantly different than this season?  Why would we expect them to suddenly be comfortable with spending 20-30 more than they are? 

So, what you're saying is that you havent actually seen anything? -- That you're basing what they will do next year on what they did this year?   Thanks, that's what I thought.   

Unlike you, I believed they had a plan in place that went beyond this year.  Unlike you I firmly believed that plan was built on successfully graduating players to MLB (and all the benefits that come with it), and resigning Mike Trout.   Maybe more importantly I was paying attention when it was reported the Angels swung and missed on pitchers who ultimately ended up costing a lot of money -- not because the Angels were reluctant to spend but because those pitchers didn't want to come to Anaheim.

It's pointless to even attempt to engage in this conversation if you think the situation going into 2019 and the one going into 2020 are the same.

I'll believe they won't spend when they say as much.  You're gonna believe what you believe and that's cool too.

 

Edited by Inside Pitch

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17 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

He is, but I also think we need an above average catcher to go along with it.  We have zilch in the pipeline at this position, and while we are contending, I don't want to have to worry about the position on a year to year basis anymore.

I like Smith and I'd like to see them pick up a veteran LHed hitting guy for a platoon.  Although Grandal would be an amazing option in that he could also platoon at 1b.  Our lineup would be ridiculous with him in it.  Doubtful we could afford him and Cole.  

If we could get him and Bumgarner vs. just getting Cole, that would be a tough call.  

Cole's agent is Boras.  He's gonna be looking for the Scherzer contract ie about 7/210 even if there's some money deferred.  

 

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It seems obvious that they were willing to spend big on Corbin or Eavoldi.  Arte talked a lot about how they have flexibility and more or less said they were going to spend.  You have to expect that they won’t get him, but I do think they’ll be a big player for him.  And hopefully they pull him down. 

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1 hour ago, GrittyVeterans said:

I don't know about "must signing", but if you are ever going to go big on someone, this is probably the time. The Angels are never going to have a bigger need than they do at the front of the rotation over the next 2 seasons. 

Signing Cole moves everyone down a spot in the rotation AND takes stress off the bullpen. 

The WS contention window is from 2020-2023 probably. That's Trout's age 28-31 seasons. Cole fits nicely into that. The Angels have money to spend. 

Well said

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4 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

It seems obvious that they were willing to spend big on Corbin or Eavoldi.  Arte talked a lot about how they have flexibility and more or less said they were going to spend.  You have to expect that they won’t get him, but I do think they’ll be a big player for him.  And hopefully they pull him down. 

I think it's time to open a more competitive window and I think with the way the offense has been with more reinforcements coming as well as getting ohtani back on the mound, my guess is that the Angels brass is starting to feel the same.  

Houston isn't going anywhere and the young pitching is going to join Oakland soon enough, but the Angels shouldn't wait.  

The team is two starters and a couple of pen pieces away from being very good.  A couple of those could be solved in house which would be great.  This is a solid FA class for SP.  Not great for relievers.  And outside of C, position players are fairly set for next year barring injury.  

It's basically taking the same pool of money from last year that was allocated to SP and RP but just finding better players.  But I personally think that they'll go a little bigger than that in terms of spending.  

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48 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So, what you're saying is that you havent actually seen anything? -- That you're basing what they will do next year on what they did this year?   Thanks, that's what I thought.   

Unlike you, I believed they had a plan in place that went beyond this year.  Unlike you I firmly believed that plan was built on successfully graduating players to MLB (and all the benefits that come with it), and resigning Mike Trout.   Maybe more importantly I was paying attention when it was reported the Angels swung and missed on pitchers who ultimately ended up costing a lot of money -- not because the Angels were reluctant to spend but because those pitchers didn't want to come to Anaheim.

It's pointless to even attempt to engage in this conversation if you think the situation going into 2019 and the one going into 2020 are the same.

I'll believe they won't spend when they say as much.  You're gonna believe what you believe and that's cool too.

 

Ill remind you that i think they are full of beans and could spend much more if they wanted to,, which is why i have repeatedly said things like "if you believe what they say".  
They said that have a budget they are comfortable with, their words,s not mine.  Do I know anything aside from that, of course not, never said i did. 
The situation might be different in terms of chance to be relevant, but considering the team has repeatedly drawn 3M even such sucking what would suddenly up that budget?  Again, assuming what they have said in the past is true. 

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5 minutes ago, rageous said:

Why not try to sign Ryu over Cole?

He won't have a loss of draft pick attached to it and he's not a flame thrower so loss of velocity will affect him less as he age.

Ippei will have a translator friend who speaks Korean. Angels looking hot with 4 languages in the dugout.

All jokes aside, I like this idea. In fact, why not sign both for the hell of it.

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13 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

*ASSUMING HEALTHY*

Cole

Ohtani

Heaney or Skaggs. (one will be gone)

Canning

Suarez

Pena/Barria/Tropeano/ someone else we sign

That's a much better rotation. Still could use some tweaks. 

Why wouldn't we keep Heaney and Skaggs? I'd keep them both and just plan on Ohtani/Heaney/Skaggs giving us about 2 pitchers worth of innings. Unless we could include one of them in a trade for another pitcher, I am not sure we have enough arms *just* yet to get rid of guys-- no matter how injury prone.

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2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Harvey, Cahill, Allen, Bour, and Calhoun alone clear close to $50 million from payroll.   What arbs are coming this off-season that could be somewhat expensive?  Just Heaney and Skaggs?

It's more like a savings of $41M, not $50M. 

You're forgetting that raises to Trout, Pujols and Upton are $24M. Arbs to Robles, Lastella, Cam,etc. will eat up some more money, too. 

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