Halokingfish

Six man rotation in 2020?

36 posts in this topic

With Ohtani back in 2020, does the team experiment with the six man rotation again? With rosters expanding to 26 it wouldn’t cut into the depth of another part of the team like it did in 2018. Since Ohtani is coming off that TJS, I think it’s worth a look

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t think they’ll have a choice. Too many guys will be on inning-limits. But they’ve also had a hard time even keeping four SPs on the staff at any given time this year, so that’s the biggest hurdle. 

I think a major FA acquisition, Ohtani, and Heaney make up the first three. Pena maybe makes four, or perhaps another 1-yr vet SP. Canning, Suarez, Barria, Sandoval, Peters trade off between the last two spots and AAA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, totdprods said:

 

I think a major FA acquisition, Ohtani, and Heaney make up the first three. Pena maybe makes four, or perhaps another 1-yr vet SP. Canning, Suarez, Barria, Sandoval, Peters trade off between the last two spots and AAA.

There must be more than one FA acquisition - they need at least two solid rotation pieces, perhaps three. And they need Ohtani to come back healthy. The rotation truly is that thin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since they don't seem to have anyone that they trust to face the same hitter 3 times in one game, maybe they'll have to go with that "rotation" the Rockies tried at one time. The Rockies had each pitcher throw every fourth game, Everyone became a long reliever that would each go 3 innings. a starter, a middle man and a finisher. Then they had a closer if needed. I'm joking about doing that, but in over 50 years of watching this team, I've never seen the starting pitching this bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, wopphil said:

There must be more than one FA acquisition - they need at least two solid rotation pieces, perhaps three. And they need Ohtani to come back healthy. The rotation truly is that thin.

Tough to do if they sign Cole and the trade asks continue to be this high - and if they don’t sign Cole, I don’t know how much money they’ll want to tie up on mid-tier guys on multi year deals. But i totally agree.

Really interesting offseason ahead.

I’d like to see a Calhoun for Teheran swap. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don’t think they’ll have a choice. Too many guys will be on inning-limits. But they’ve also had a hard time even keeping four SPs on the staff at any given time this year, so that’s the biggest hurdle. 

I think a major FA acquisition, Ohtani, and Heaney make up the first three. Pena maybe makes four, or perhaps another 1-yr vet SP. Canning, Suarez, Barria, Sandoval, Peters trade off between the last two spots and AAA.

Pena is probably out till mid next season.  

Even if it's not another big name, a second FA signing is a must for depth purposes.  Even if it's someone at 5m plus incentives. It also depends if we make a trade which could include a guy like Suarez.  

We'll definitely have a 6-man rotation though even if some guys pitch every five days.  And it's not like the 6 guys we start with will make every start they'd be scheduled for.  Ideally, that 6th 'starter' would be from a pool of Sandoval, Barria, Peters, and Suarez as well as one more depth piece that could float between AAA and the bigs. That would be some decent depth.  But the top 3 or 4 at least have to pitch more innings without question or any of the best laid plans aren't going to work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Do we offer starting pitchers less money because they won’t be pitching as many games with a 6 man rotation? Should we value starting pitchers less?

No we sign $200M Ace pitchers because we only need them every six games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Tough to do if they sign Cole and the trade asks continue to be this high - and if they don’t sign Cole, I don’t know how much money they’ll want to tie up on mid-tier guys on multi year deals. But i totally agree.

Really interesting offseason ahead.

I’d like to see a Calhoun for Teheran swap. 

In order to trade Calhoun we would need to pick up his option, @$14M. He would be a hard trade for that money on a 1 year deal. If we don't pick up his option he is a FA and we get nothing for him. Tough going either way. I would rather use the $14M towards a FA starting pitcher and bring up Adell at league minimum...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Do we offer starting pitchers less money because they won’t be pitching as many games with a 6 man rotation? Should we value starting pitchers less?

The schedule is out so this was pretty easy to verify.  But If they sign a legit front of the rotation guy and choose to keep him pitching every 5th day, with the off days being spread out how they are there wouldn't be a situation where the opening day's starter falls on a Sunday (when the Angels had been throwing Ohtani), until the middle of August.   It's not hard to plot out a situation where they keep Ohtani pitching once a week, ace caliber pitches on a regular 5 day schedule and then you have the other guys where either one of them gets skipped or they pitch on longer rest.

Basically, there would be 3 times where the 5th starter gets skipped or two guys get one day's extra rest..   So....

 

Edited by Inside Pitch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if the Angels go get Cole, am I to believe that the Angels are smart to be handing the ball to Nick Tropeano on the fifth day instead giving the ball back to Cole?

Other than accommodating a special need for Ohtani (which I still am not convinced is necessary) I don’t see any reason to keep handing the ball to your sixth best starter on a day when it would be you #1’s normal turn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

So if the Angels go get Cole, am I to believe that the Angels are smart to be handing the ball to Nick Tropeano on the fifth day instead giving the ball back to Cole?

Other than accommodating a special need for Ohtani (which I still am not convinced is necessary) I don’t see any reason to keep handing the ball to your sixth best starter on a day when it would be you #1’s normal turn.

Just because it’s a six man rotation doesn’t mean everyone is locked in to that order. Especially if we have a good quintet of optionable SPs.

Start Ohtani every Sunday - most Mondays are off days so that’s a great day for him to be scheduled off.

Start Cole on his typical schedule - when it falls on a Sunday, either shift him up back a day for an extra day of rest or give Ohtani a week off from pitching to save some innings and get him ABs.

For the rest of the days, option the Barria, Suarez, Canning, Sandoval, Peters, Tropeano, Madero, Ortega guys as needed, alternating weeks. Leverage your long relievers (Pena, Ramirez) as occasional starters by pairing them with an opener.

If Heaney, Canning, whomever grows into a steady 32 GS/180 IP type arm, then they can adjust to a schedule like mentioned above for Cole, and the guys who don’t develop that way become an alternating cast for the other starts.

Edited by totdprods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The schedule is out so this was pretty easy to verify.  But If they sign a legit front of the rotation guy and choose to keep him pitching every 5th day, with the off days being spread out how they are there wouldn't be a situation where the opening day's starter falls on a Sunday (when the Angels had been throwing Ohtani), until the middle of August.   It's not hard to plot out a situation where they keep Ohtani pitching once a week, ace caliber pitches on a regular 5 day schedule and then you have the other guys where either one of them gets skipped or they pitch on longer rest.

Basically, there would be 3 times where the 5th starter gets skipped or two guys get one day's extra rest..   So....

 

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Ohtani gets special treatment, the two imports are basically "normal" starters, and the rest of the rotation is almost like a situation in which whoever pitches well gets the innings. Maybe Heaney is healthy and graduates to "normal starter" status, maybe Canning or Suarez or Sandoval step forward and earn the upgrade. Who knows, by year's end we could have a relatively normal five-man rotation, with a few guys filling in as needed.

And of course people get injured. But assuming health to start the year, I could see the March/April starts going something like this:

image.png.cefe7da26a9faf1120bacca9c71d3e0e.png

So essentially, depending upon the week, Canning and/or the "other" starter is skipped. I don't like this for Canning, but maybe it allows him to earn his way to more starts: the better he performs, the less he'll get skipped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has been difficult enough to field five starting pitchers in a rotation.  Ohtani should pitch every fifth day. No more Sundays only. Maybe he should rest from DH only on the day before the start, not both before and after.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

In order to trade Calhoun we would need to pick up his option, @$14M. He would be a hard trade for that money on a 1 year deal. If we don't pick up his option he is a FA and we get nothing for him. Tough going either way. I would rather use the $14M towards a FA starting pitcher and bring up Adell at league minimum...

Teheran is on a $12m option. Atlanta might lose Donaldson, Calhoun’s bat buys them an extra year of Donaldson-esque production offensively and defensively, albeit in RF, allowing guys like Riley and Camargo to develop further. It allows them to let Donaldson walk and save a little bit of cash without losing all of his production, allowing them to make a stronger play a vet SP better than Teheran.

I think I had actually pitched a Calhoun and Bedrosian for Teheran and Markakis deal somewhere. Markakis gives the Angels a Calhoun-lite at RF/LF/1B - someone they can easily bench or cut in favor of Adell, or use as a stopgap in the interim that’s safer than Goodwin. Teheran gives the Angels a durable, effective SP with #2-3 ceiling and #4-5 floor - should be helpful either way and affordable on a one-year. Clears up a rotation spot and money for Atlanta to pursue some like Bumgarner, who I think they’ll desire. Bedrosian was added in because I think the Angels will need to pay a little more still, and Bedrosian seems a good fit for Atlanta and is fairly expendable for the Angels if Middleton returns. Saves them a little bit of arb too. 

Pretty much even money. Angels get a SP and some OF/SP insurance and have the rest to use on Cole or others still. 

Edited by totdprods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

So if the Angels go get Cole, am I to believe that the Angels are smart to be handing the ball to Nick Tropeano on the fifth day instead giving the ball back to Cole?

Other than accommodating a special need for Ohtani (which I still am not convinced is necessary) I don’t see any reason to keep handing the ball to your sixth best starter on a day when it would be you #1’s normal turn.

^^^

The 6-man rotation was never really a 6-man rotation. The Angels believe the starters are mostly better off with 5 days rest instead of 4, but that’s also a function of the guys they had. I’m sure if they signed Cole he’d pitch more often than the other guys. 

Also, you can have 5 starters on your roster and call up a guy for a spot start 1-2 times a month when you want to give the other guys an extra day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Halokingfish said:

With Ohtani back in 2020, does the team experiment with the six man rotation again? With rosters expanding to 26 it wouldn’t cut into the depth of another part of the team like it did in 2018. Since Ohtani is coming off that TJS, I think it’s worth a look

Aren't we using a 6 man rotation every game? Oh you mean starting rotation. My bad!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Calzone 2 said:

If I’m Cole, I say F your leisure world six man rotation. Let me pitch. 

 

edit...do we even have six pitchers?

No pitcher wants to pitch in a six man rotation ... except,  maybe Ohtani. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

No pitcher wants to pitch in a six man rotation ... except,  maybe Ohtani. 

Six-man rotation could be what we need with Ohtani. Six pitchers means we can have Ohtani batting more often.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • AngelsWin.com Ad-free Membership Options